Greece is in financial trouble, their national debt is 12.7% of national income, only 3% is allowed by countries in the Euro Zone. EU policy dictates that countries that go over the 3% limit, must cut their budgets and come into line fiscally, so as to keep the Euro stable.
Germany, the big boy of Euro monetary policy, has been tapped up by the Greeks for a bail out. Right wing German politicians are against it and so is the German magazine Focus, which printed a cover using the Venus de Milo to gets it message across, which has angered the fiercely patriotic Greeks.
The Germans are suggesting to the Greeks that they sell some of their uninhabited islands and their national treasures such as the Acropolis and the Parthenon. The deeply offended Greeks took to the airwaves and bitched about all things German.
“I don’t mind so much about the austerity measures, it’s the Germans,” a former government employee told a radio host. “The suggestion that we now sell off our national assets has got me so angry I am boycotting all their products.”
The country’s consumer federation, INKA, summoned Greeks to boycott German products, including supermarket chains and car dealerships, following a spasm of national fury at the way the country was being portrayed by the German media.
What the Venus de Milo really looks like
“The pressure the Germans are putting us under is outrageous,” said Sarandi Pitsas, a pensioner who took to the streets to protest against the austerity measures. “When we were carving beautiful statues like the Venus de Milos,” he said, referring to the cover of a German magazine which showed the statue gesturing obscenely under the headline ‘Greek cheats’, “they were living in caves and growling like dogs.”
There have been street protests in Greece against the cuts, and there will be more, but the Greek government might be relived that some Germans have taken a hard line against helping out, it has taken the pressure off them and directed a bulk of the anger towards Germany. Any day now expect World War II and the Nazi occupation of Greece to take over the argument.
Some newspaper articles are saying that Wall Street, Goldman Sachs in particular, hid the Greek debt, so they could enter the Euro Zone as debt free. Well that stinks, but another post entirely.
Josef Schlarmann told Bild newspaper that Greece should consider selling its uninhabited islands for debt redemption. Photograph: Third Eye Images/Corbis
Greece must consider a fire sale of land, historic buildings and art works to cut its debts, two rightwing German politicians said today in a newspaper interview that is bound to exacerbate tensions between Athens and Berlin.
Alongside austerity measures such as cuts to public sector pay and a freeze on state pensions, why not sell a few uninhabited islands or ancient artefacts, asked Josef Schlarmann, a senior member of Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats, and Frank Schaeffler, a finance policy expert in the Free Democrats.
The Acropolis and the Parthenon could also fall under the hammer, along with temptingly idyllic Aegean islands still under state ownership, in a rush to keep bankruptcy at bay.
“Those in insolvency have to sell everything they have to pay their creditors,” Schlarmann told Bild newspaper. “Greece owns buildings, companies and uninhabited islands, which could all be used for debt redemption.”
Only yesterday the ruling socialist government in Greece published its third attempt to reduce the country’s debts and please EU governments, which have pledged to support the beleaguered economy if austerity measures are enacted.
Strikes and street protests have already threatened to bring many industries and public services to a standstill if the cuts go ahead.
But Germans remain unmoved by the troubles facing Greece. Opinion polls show Germans are overwhelmingly against a Berlin-funded bailout. Greece’s deficit was 12.7% of national income in 2009, well ahead of the EU’s 3% limit.
Merkel will meet the Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, in Berlin on Friday.
“The chancellor cannot promise Greece any help,” Schaeffler told Bild in a story under the headline: “Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks! And sell the Acropolis too!”
“The Greek government has to take radical steps to sell its property – for example its uninhabited islands,” Schaeffler told Germany‘s best-selling daily newspaper.
Greece’s deputy foreign minister, Dimitris Droutsas, was asked about the idea in an interview with ARD TV. “I’ve also heard the suggestion we should sell the Acropolis,” Droutsas said. “Suggestions like this are not appropriate at this time.”
Europe‘s biggest economy itself is only just creeping out of its worst postwar recession. Last week figures revealed the German economy had stalled, while separately, politicians wrestled with a bigger bailout for its second-largest bank, Commerzbank, which purchased billions of pounds worth of exotic financial instruments linked to US sub-prime mortgages.
Greeks reacted with outrage to the proposals today, with many taking to the airwaves to complain about all things Teutonic.
“I don’t mind so much about the austerity measures, it’s the Germans,” a former government employee told a radio host. “The suggestion that we now sell off our national assets has got me so angry I am boycotting all their products.”
The country’s consumer federation, INKA, summoned Greeks to boycott German products, including supermarket chains and car dealerships, following a spasm of national fury at the way the country was being portrayed by the German media.
“The pressure the Germans are putting us under is outrageous,” said Sarandi Pitsas, a pensioner who took to the streets to protest against the austerity measures. “When we were carving beautiful statues like the Venus de Milos,” he said, referring to the cover of a German magazine which showed the statue gesturing obscenely under the headline ‘Greek cheats’, “they were living in caves and growling like dogs.”
Five days after it was launched, the 100,000-strong consumer group says the boycott of products and shops is going splendidly. “The response has been immense,” Haralambous Velidarakis, a board member of INKA, said. “This is not against the German people but in protest against sustained attacks from the German government, which will lead to the impoverishment of Greeks.”
How could anyone take your history? Maybe a few artifacts because they were being destroyed. Your history is intact and it is beloved of world history, mainly thanks to British and American Universities, who taught Greek and possess a love of all things from ancient Greece.
YANNI – You sound like a proud Greek, and Zeus bless you for that. I have traveled to Greece several times including many of the islands. I was in wonder of the beauty of the land and the people. I think Greek politicians have let the country down a little and as usual it will be up to the people to get them out of it, which will happen. The suggestion that Greece sell itself to pay for debts was a little tongue in cheek, but still very insulting to people such as yourself. I hope you will come back to our site and comment with your obvious intelligence.
Bee came to the obvious honesty in the article (great post Holte!)… if not for Greece, schools of thought and democracy would not have made it to the west (by way of Greeks visiting and learning it from the Egyptians). Nasty turn this is… Germany feels that they might retreat into a piggy little nature of us vs them fiscally. Frankly, it’s a global marketplace no matter who says or thinks what and we should be learning how to be good, helpful neighbors and shopkeeps with each other no matter where we are on the planet. But NO… ya’all wanna go and get all rad on Venus…Huh? Germans just don’t get… now they screw with The Goddess. No good will come of it.
GWEN – In fairness to Germans, the people doing the insulting were supposedly right wingers, most Germans might be against bailing out Greece but would not insult their rich and varied history.
As a ‘little islander’…;-) I can say with all honesty that the EU is intrusive on us.
A ‘Common Market’ is a good thing – and through that you could ensure peace and understanding.
True, Euro MP’s are elected but only because a few people turn out to vote for them.
I don’t think UKIP are remotely like the BNP personally. They get relatively few votes in national elections as they are perceived as purely an ‘anti-EU’ party so generally profit more from Euro elections.
THe BNP are, potentially, a far greater threat than UKIP anyway as the mass immigration allowed by successive governments against the will of the majority of the people is playing right into the BNP’s hands.
The vast majority are not racist but do want to see a halt to the sociological changes to this country that have been forced upon them.
Much immigration has been beneficial to the country but a worryingly substantial amount has not – for example, a large percentage of immigrants from Somalia for example have few, if any skills of value to the UK.
The latest influx from Eastern Europe has, by and large, consisted of people desiring to work and contribute.
In fact, many Poles and Czechs are now returning home somewhat disillusioned with the UK. Many that I got to know working at Heathrow are saying things like “We thought it would be better here but there are so many muslims!” – their words not mine. I have no issue with anyone based on religion as long as they don’t try and impose on me.
My sad prediction for this country is that it will, one day, follow along the lines of Yugoslavia unless our politicians take the views of their people seriously and seek to address them.
God help us all if the BNP ever really begin to make inroads!
I seem to recall a european country went that way once..:-(
Still, as my good friends the Mahmoods often say to me “There is always hope my friend”…..
“When we were carv ing beau ti ful stat ues like the Venus de Milos,” he said, refer ring to the cover of a Ger man maga zine which showed the statue ges tur ing obscenely under the headline ‘Greek cheats’, “they were liv ing in caves and growl ing like dogs.”
Well, he’s got a point there.
One thing the EU did for America: It gave us a whole new generation of apocalyptically minded conspiracy theorists.
Getting back to Greece, the current crisis simply points up the unworkability of the whole project. One can’t impose a single currency on two dozen countries with different cultures and different levels of economic development and expect the system to function very well beyond the point where a serious crisis means that the member countries’ interests require policies which are in conflict with each other.
If Greece had a separate currency, it could alleviate much of its current trouble by devaluation. Locked into a single currency with the rest of the eurozone, it no longer has that option. And the German taxpayers are understandably getting sick of bailing out countries with less-strict policies and traditions.
EU members Britain, Denmark, and Sweden have kept their own currencies instead of adopting the euro. I don’t see how they have been in any way disadvantaged by this. Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland don’t belong to the EU at all — again, that doesn’t seem to have done them any harm. In fact, they retain the advantage that when a Swiss referendum or the Norwegian parliament make a decision, it actually goes into effect without bothering about what Brussels thinks, since those are still fully sovereign countries.
How many countries would have adopted the euro if there had been popular referenda on the issue, or if there had been a party clearly opposed to the euro to vote for?
And regardless of how the decision to adopt the common currency was made, it seems clear now that it was unworkable in the long run, as some prescient economists at the time predicted.
Which is what Mr. Dinners said in the first comment he was in favor of. Not a common currency. Not trying to unify all those diverse countries under a single massively-bureaucratic common sovereignty, by stealth, against the wishes of the majority of the population in most of them.
Mr. Dinners — or can I just be familiar and call you Four — do you anticipate a larger-than-expected vote for the UKIP in the upcoming election? If the politicians aren’t listening, maybe you need different politicians.
INFIDEL – UKIPs aim is withdrawal from the EU, yet they have a dozen or so MEPs. They have no MPs in the British Parliament, they are a little bit nationalistic, just a dressed up Tory party, or the BNP with a few decent thoughts in their heads. Little Islanders Party I prefer to call them.
UKIPs aim is withdrawal from the EU, yet they have a dozen or so MEPs.
Well, if the European parliament is where the real power is, it seems like gaining some influence there would be an appropriate step toward the goal of regaining independence, wouldn’t it? As for the British parliament, I may be wrong but I don’t think there has been an election for that since the UKIP got well-organized, and the first-past-the-post system makes it hard for third parties to get members actually elected.
Third parties aren’t viable in the US because they take votes away from whichever major party they are closer to, thus tipping elections to the other major party (the one further from what their voters favor).
If the differences between the two major parties are negligible — which from my admittedly sketchy knowledge seems to be the case in Britain — tipping elections isn’t much of an issue.
Even so, I suspect the UKIP’s vote in May will be reduced by people who fear letting Labour back in if they vote UKIP instead of Conservative.
“The Germans are suggesting to the Greeks that they sell some of their uninhabited islands and their national treasures such as the Acropolis and the Parthenon. The deeply offended Greeks took to the airwaves and bitched about all things German.”
That in a nutshell is why Germans are hated throughout southern Europe.
I would not be a bit surprised at anything that Goldman-Sachs might do, or be accused of doing. Too bad for Greece. Steeped in history yet buried in tragedy. Is that why they call it a Greek tragedy?
MIKE – It wouldn’t be Greece without a tragedy or two. I loved it when I was there, they weren’t in the EU then, barely a democracy. Great place to visit if you like really old stuff.
Mr. DINNERS – Did they scrap the electing of Members of The European Parliament (MEPs) they used to when I lived there, I know they were responsible for the majority of legislation. I think the EU has worked pretty well, none of the members have declared war on each other for decades, that must be some sort of record.
I would attribute the lack of wars in western Europe since 1945 to:
1) NATO (preventing a Soviet invasion, the most obvious potential cause of war)
2) the memory of the extreme destruction caused by World War II
3) knowledge of the even greater destructiveness of modern weapons, even non-nuclear ones.
There also hasn’t been much to fight over, not among a bunch of prosperous social democracies.
The EU most likely had little to do with keeping the peace.
As for electing MEPs, voting is not of much use when there is a consensus among major parties to avoid discussing the issues that really concern the voters. Hence the rise of insurgent parties like the UKIP. I do wonder which party Mr. Dinners plans to vote for in May.
INFIDEL – Agree with you almost, the prosperous bit is a little iffy. Spain and Portugal had dictators for decades after the WWII, Italy’s government collapsed every other day and the French were on their knees too until DeGaulle “rescued” them, in Britain I was 7 years old when rationing ended in 1954, hardly prosperous. The anti EU movement are a little teabaggish in their thinking, sovereign state blah blah. The EU is successful for the most part, not completely. French are still French, Spanish still Spanish, etc etc etc.
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How could anyone take your history? Maybe a few artifacts because they were being destroyed. Your history is intact and it is beloved of world history, mainly thanks to British and American Universities, who taught Greek and possess a love of all things from ancient Greece.
YANNI – You sound like a proud Greek, and Zeus bless you for that. I have traveled to Greece several times including many of the islands. I was in wonder of the beauty of the land and the people. I think Greek politicians have let the country down a little and as usual it will be up to the people to get them out of it, which will happen. The suggestion that Greece sell itself to pay for debts was a little tongue in cheek, but still very insulting to people such as yourself. I hope you will come back to our site and comment with your obvious intelligence.
Bee came to the obvious honesty in the article (great post Holte!)… if not for Greece, schools of thought and democracy would not have made it to the west (by way of Greeks visiting and learning it from the Egyptians). Nasty turn this is… Germany feels that they might retreat into a piggy little nature of us vs them fiscally. Frankly, it’s a global marketplace no matter who says or thinks what and we should be learning how to be good, helpful neighbors and shopkeeps with each other no matter where we are on the planet. But NO… ya’all wanna go and get all rad on Venus…Huh? Germans just don’t get… now they screw with The Goddess. No good will come of it.
GWEN – In fairness to Germans, the people doing the insulting were supposedly right wingers, most Germans might be against bailing out Greece but would not insult their rich and varied history.
As a ‘little islander’…;-) I can say with all honesty that the EU is intrusive on us.
A ‘Common Market’ is a good thing – and through that you could ensure peace and understanding.
True, Euro MP’s are elected but only because a few people turn out to vote for them.
I don’t think UKIP are remotely like the BNP personally. They get relatively few votes in national elections as they are perceived as purely an ‘anti-EU’ party so generally profit more from Euro elections.
THe BNP are, potentially, a far greater threat than UKIP anyway as the mass immigration allowed by successive governments against the will of the majority of the people is playing right into the BNP’s hands.
The vast majority are not racist but do want to see a halt to the sociological changes to this country that have been forced upon them.
Much immigration has been beneficial to the country but a worryingly substantial amount has not – for example, a large percentage of immigrants from Somalia for example have few, if any skills of value to the UK.
The latest influx from Eastern Europe has, by and large, consisted of people desiring to work and contribute.
In fact, many Poles and Czechs are now returning home somewhat disillusioned with the UK. Many that I got to know working at Heathrow are saying things like “We thought it would be better here but there are so many muslims!” – their words not mine. I have no issue with anyone based on religion as long as they don’t try and impose on me.
My sad prediction for this country is that it will, one day, follow along the lines of Yugoslavia unless our politicians take the views of their people seriously and seek to address them.
God help us all if the BNP ever really begin to make inroads!
I seem to recall a european country went that way once..:-(
Still, as my good friends the Mahmoods often say to me “There is always hope my friend”…..
“When we were carv ing beau ti ful stat ues like the Venus de Milos,” he said, refer ring to the cover of a Ger man maga zine which showed the statue ges tur ing obscenely under the headline ‘Greek cheats’, “they were liv ing in caves and growl ing like dogs.”
Well, he’s got a point there.
One thing the EU did for America: It gave us a whole new generation of apocalyptically minded conspiracy theorists.
BEE – One of the things the EU did for Europe, it got them arguing over things that could be resolved without breaking off diplomatic relations.
Holte,
Interesting post, thank you. I’d read the thing about Goldman too. Bastards got their greasy fingers in everything that goes wrong don’t they ?
OSO – Goldman and their buddies can’t keep out of the headlines can they?
Getting back to Greece, the current crisis simply points up the unworkability of the whole project. One can’t impose a single currency on two dozen countries with different cultures and different levels of economic development and expect the system to function very well beyond the point where a serious crisis means that the member countries’ interests require policies which are in conflict with each other.
If Greece had a separate currency, it could alleviate much of its current trouble by devaluation. Locked into a single currency with the rest of the eurozone, it no longer has that option. And the German taxpayers are understandably getting sick of bailing out countries with less-strict policies and traditions.
EU members Britain, Denmark, and Sweden have kept their own currencies instead of adopting the euro. I don’t see how they have been in any way disadvantaged by this. Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland don’t belong to the EU at all — again, that doesn’t seem to have done them any harm. In fact, they retain the advantage that when a Swiss referendum or the Norwegian parliament make a decision, it actually goes into effect without bothering about what Brussels thinks, since those are still fully sovereign countries.
No country is forced into the Euro Zone, they to go in because they see benefits, but there are drawbacks, like rules and budgets.
How many countries would have adopted the euro if there had been popular referenda on the issue, or if there had been a party clearly opposed to the euro to vote for?
And regardless of how the decision to adopt the common currency was made, it seems clear now that it was unworkable in the long run, as some prescient economists at the time predicted.
Countries from different cultures and different climates, working together, trading together, is an experiment. I hope it works.
Which is what Mr. Dinners said in the first comment he was in favor of. Not a common currency. Not trying to unify all those diverse countries under a single massively-bureaucratic common sovereignty, by stealth, against the wishes of the majority of the population in most of them.
Mr. Dinners — or can I just be familiar and call you Four — do you anticipate a larger-than-expected vote for the UKIP in the upcoming election? If the politicians aren’t listening, maybe you need different politicians.
INFIDEL – UKIPs aim is withdrawal from the EU, yet they have a dozen or so MEPs. They have no MPs in the British Parliament, they are a little bit nationalistic, just a dressed up Tory party, or the BNP with a few decent thoughts in their heads. Little Islanders Party I prefer to call them.
UKIPs aim is withdrawal from the EU, yet they have a dozen or so MEPs.
Well, if the European parliament is where the real power is, it seems like gaining some influence there would be an appropriate step toward the goal of regaining independence, wouldn’t it? As for the British parliament, I may be wrong but I don’t think there has been an election for that since the UKIP got well-organized, and the first-past-the-post system makes it hard for third parties to get members actually elected.
So much for that third party thing not being viable.
Third parties aren’t viable in the US because they take votes away from whichever major party they are closer to, thus tipping elections to the other major party (the one further from what their voters favor).
If the differences between the two major parties are negligible — which from my admittedly sketchy knowledge seems to be the case in Britain — tipping elections isn’t much of an issue.
Even so, I suspect the UKIP’s vote in May will be reduced by people who fear letting Labour back in if they vote UKIP instead of Conservative.
“The Germans are suggesting to the Greeks that they sell some of their uninhabited islands and their national treasures such as the Acropolis and the Parthenon. The deeply offended Greeks took to the airwaves and bitched about all things German.”
That in a nutshell is why Germans are hated throughout southern Europe.
TOM – In Crete they kept all the old WWII German built fortifications on the beaches as a reminder to the German tourists.
I would not be a bit surprised at anything that Goldman-Sachs might do, or be accused of doing. Too bad for Greece. Steeped in history yet buried in tragedy. Is that why they call it a Greek tragedy?
MIKE – It wouldn’t be Greece without a tragedy or two. I loved it when I was there, they weren’t in the EU then, barely a democracy. Great place to visit if you like really old stuff.
Personally I’d love to see @Europe’ go completely tits up.
The majority of Brits are never given a say via referendum quite simply because we would vote to leave the EU completely – and the poiticians know it.
I love the Greeks and the Italians and the Spanish and the Germ…well…erm….
A ‘Common Market’ was all the Brits agreed too. Not an unelected body sitting in Brussels passing laws and invading our lives be stealth.
If America loves Britain it should officially cease to recognise ‘Europe’ and only recognise individual countries within Europe.
As for the Euro. If our morons ever scrap the pound I’m sure I’ll have to find a grassy knoll somewhere and open up!!!!
Mr. DINNERS – Did they scrap the electing of Members of The European Parliament (MEPs) they used to when I lived there, I know they were responsible for the majority of legislation. I think the EU has worked pretty well, none of the members have declared war on each other for decades, that must be some sort of record.
I would attribute the lack of wars in western Europe since 1945 to:
1) NATO (preventing a Soviet invasion, the most obvious potential cause of war)
2) the memory of the extreme destruction caused by World War II
3) knowledge of the even greater destructiveness of modern weapons, even non-nuclear ones.
There also hasn’t been much to fight over, not among a bunch of prosperous social democracies.
The EU most likely had little to do with keeping the peace.
As for electing MEPs, voting is not of much use when there is a consensus among major parties to avoid discussing the issues that really concern the voters. Hence the rise of insurgent parties like the UKIP. I do wonder which party Mr. Dinners plans to vote for in May.
INFIDEL – Agree with you almost, the prosperous bit is a little iffy. Spain and Portugal had dictators for decades after the WWII, Italy’s government collapsed every other day and the French were on their knees too until DeGaulle “rescued” them, in Britain I was 7 years old when rationing ended in 1954, hardly prosperous. The anti EU movement are a little teabaggish in their thinking, sovereign state blah blah. The EU is successful for the most part, not completely. French are still French, Spanish still Spanish, etc etc etc.