God’s Little Corner-A Question for the Believers (3)
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If God knows the future before it happens how can it be that we have free will?
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If he knows so much of what I am going to do then God is actually a woman and I’m married to her…er…him….er…it
I don’t think you are using the coin flipping analogy properly. Coin flipping is used to test randomness. If a coin is flipped once then it is 50/50. There is no deliberation by the coin of what side to land on. In fact the coin itself is completely removed from any decision making and is just a tool used to test randomness (or choose between In-N-Out and Chipotle for dinner) So if one were to use this as an analogy in the Gods Knowledge Vs Freewill debate the coin flip would represent our choices (in this case the would be only 2) and therefore freewill. But if we decided on issues like a coin flip then that means there would be a 50/50 argument for both choices which usually isnt the case. Usually one side outweighs the other. This is how we ultimatley come up with a decision.
But if we are talking about the Christian God then he also created all and therefore is the cause of the result of the flip. This makes freewill an illusion rather than a reality. Otherwise one has to explain how God can “know” what we are going to do before we do it AND he had no hand in the decision. If he is the Alpha and Omega then it is he who made the choice for you.
Brilliant analysis!! Hope you become a regular visitor Chase.
There is no need for free Will or determinism.
Whenever a decision is made, all choices are possible in Multiverse. You may be in the “Yes” Universe but the quantum equivalent you has made that “No” decision in a separate Universe.
There may be no need for free Will, but what about Free Wii?
LOL!!
LOL LOL! But does a Wii have free will?
Free will, or Free Willy?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaahhahaahahh!!
Not only is the multiverse unproven but it is unrealistic to think the way that people (like Krell) suggest the multiverse works. The main reason is that every decision that is made, from choosing rice krispies over count chocula (I know, nobody in their right mind would do that) to looking left vs right,up, or down, to cracking your knuckles vs not, they would all create a new universe. Consider all the humans who have ever lived and add up all their choices they ever made… that is how many multiverse there would have to be. Also, this does not count the rest of the animal world. Do we also count their “decision”?
the chicken or the egg, the tree falling… alone…. when a self evident question is posed I try to be short and sincere (and polite)
I subscribe to a more Wilbur/Cohen form of metaphysics in being aware of the emerging evolution worldview; or as Spock thought:
NOTHING UNREAL EXISTS. Challenging, ain’t it?
I think this is true.
ps… I don’t know if anyone else thinks about this… but to me the word ‘belief’ or ‘believe’ is describing a process of thought not a conclusion of knowing / experience. Kind of human usery language … an atheist prof of mine once pointed that out…. I still grasp it. What do you think?
OPPS OPPS OPPS… kinda almost copped out on the ? … I think I experience free will / and I think I am my own god/goddess deity… in that I am a part of All That Is. I take responsibility for my choices and the resulting actions / reality they create. Makes me the Creatrix! I share that … with All That Exists.
I heard that!
Nothing unreal exists. Interesting. Is the opposite true? Everything real exists?
By God He Got It~! LOL no insult, every compliment. Yes, I think that’s true.
Yin
Yang
btw, I realize the last part is horrible case of double speak, and yet, I do think it is so. Just in case y’all are busy typing me to purgatory…
If we do have free will, then God cannot know everything that is going to happen, and therefore a certain eventuality can only exist as a probability. And if that is the case, then God programed sentient beings with free will with the underlying imperative to evolve to more profitable states of being, as God would be doing. Therefore probability, choice and the freewill to make bad choices and de-evolve are a fundamental risk to existing, and learning from experience, at the individual level, has meaning. Otherwise we are soulless simulations of conscious beings. If the axiom, As Above, So Below, (a fractal notion of reality) is to be believed, then God too is evolving.
If God exists, and we exists as a subset of that consciousness called God, then that is the only logical explanation, though not a religiously fundamental one.
Fuckin’ A!!!
I believe the Lawyer just gave us a dose of Lawyering.
How does your knowledge of what my decision will be, necessarily influence the decision I make?
Jerry- Keep in mind this is about God knowing what you are going to do, not another human. But to answer that question; if you knew your child was going/planning on doing something bad you would try to stop them therefore influencing their decision. Since we are talking about god it is a different story and it comes down to if we truly have freewill or if he set us all up in a “Predetermined” life. It is a philosophical question that has bothered many a theologian for centuries.
I think it is pretty simple. If god influences your decision then you don’t have free will. If she doesn’t influence it, then you have free will.
And if you take this blue pill you can see the truth about the matrix, and God in his underpants.
Exactly~!
Lawyer comments “a fractal notion of reality”
I gotta say…what a second…I need to collect myself here,
damn you tears flowing into the keyboard…
Man, That was beautiful!
LOL! It is a heart breaker. Eloquent in it’s lack of simplicity.
I don’t know of any lawyers that believe in free wills.
Me neither!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
If you choose to be religious you must also choose to accept some things on faith, no explanation just faith.
I envy those that have so much believe in any one thing that they can accept all that is involved stictly on faith. I have never been one of those.
Religion wraps up everything the human mind can not yet and may never understand into just yes and no answers. Good for them, I will have to continue on the path of questions and wandering through the grey areas between black and white.
I can say with certainty that if you text message while driving that you will at some point get into an accident. Does that make me a god? But the choice is still yours.
Actually, you can’t say with certainty that a person would get into an accident. In fact the most you can assume is that they are more likely to. Considering that accidents happened everyday prior to texting one can say that driving more often increases the likelyhood of being in an accident.
Regarding the question of Gods knowledge Vs. freewill; If God is Omniscient that means he knows all, past, present and future. This means you cannot do anything without his prior knowledge. If he is the omnipotent Creator then he created the whole of existance. So, he created everything including the laws of physics, our psychology, everything. Being Omniscient he knew before creation what you would do tomorrow (sidenote: this is similar to the saying “It’s part of Gods plan”) If you truly had a choice then you could choose A instead of B even if god already “knew” you where going to choose B. Of course this would disprove his omniscience so we are left with the only other option, you have to choose the option that God “planned”. So much for freewill.
It is kind of like flipping a coin. It will either be heads or tails. The odds are 50/50. She just knows which it will be, but the odds are still 50/50.
Knowing ahead of time does not change the odds. The odds only change after the coin flip is completed.
I get that I think, but a toss of the coin and the end result is luck, and pure chance. Making a decision, however, based on some sort of God given “free will” is deliberate and not based on chance. So if God knows ahead of time what decision you will make then he know the reaction to your action. The Christians believe that God can influence your will, and if so it is not truly “free.”
Finally you write:
“She just knows which it will be, but the odds are still 50/50.”
“SHE” Jerry? 🙂 Interesting.
If god can influence the coin flip, the odds are no longer 50/50.
And, why not she? 🙂
LOL! No problem with she. I just thought…. Never mind 🙂 🙂
I’ve always wondered that myself. It’s a contradiction that makes no sense to me.
It is yet another one of those contradictions that the Jesus Jumpers cannot explain. Then again neither can I and I am anything but a Jesus Jumper 🙂
I am not a believer, but I believe the argument goes:
You are free to chose, but he know what choice you will make.
But if he knows what choice you are going to make then how do you have the free will to make it?