The Paradox of Advancement of Civilization
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What is an advanced civilization? Most people would answer that a civilization is advanced if it has developed complex science information, or maybe vast computers, or perhaps incredible advancements in biology and genetic sciences.
Well, just as a thought experiment….something to churn in your mind a little bit…
If evolution is defined as a success only by genetic material that is passed on from one generation to the next, then by definition the most successful evolutionary material is one that continues to thrive generation after generation.
My thought is “Can this be applied on a grander scale. Sort of a Meta-Evolutionary theory.”
Suppose that the “Theory of Evolution” is applied to a civilization. What would make a civilization successful? Would it be it’s technology? Not always. Technology could be the demise of that civilization by allowing the civilization to destroy itself through weapons of war (biological,chemical,nuclear) or industrially by pollution or accident. For example, maybe a genetic modification gone wrong or out of control.
Would it be it’s ability to reproduce? No again. The characteristics of that civilization and it’s available resources would determine if breeding would aid or hinder it’s long term survival. Also a particular civilizations tendencies towards war would be a deciding factor. (even if it was for the mentioned resources or additional land)
So what would be the most advanced civilization according to the above definition?
My opinion would be the civilizations that are most “in tune” with it’s natural surroundings.
Because of the almost perpetual cycle of nature in a balanced system, assuming nothing is introduced artificially to upset that balance like a species that has no local predator, or a previously unknown disease, this cycle can go for thousands of years virtually unchanged.
Now for this little thought experiment and given the criteria and the redefinition of what is “Advanced”… this is my opinion of the 3 most advanced civilizations the world has seen.
The criteria being a civilization, if not destroyed by rampant plague or some other natural occurrence unforeseen, or invaded by some other civilization, would continue to thrive for generation after generation.
Some factors to be included are religious beliefs such as need for human sacrifices, cannibalism, population stratification or slavery or treatment of women, technology capable of destroying it’s creator, etc.
So my 3 choices are….
American Indian
Australian Aborigine
Bushman of South Africa
Notice a pattern here. The civilizations that could sustain the longest, surviving generation after generation, are not the ones with the computers or high technology or the best weapons of war.
They are the ones that have become most in touch with their environmental surroundings. Taking only what they need and respecting what they take.
So just who is more advanced? Maybe something to think about….
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Krell… you should come along with me to my next seminar … I agree with your ideals… what do you think Angor Wat, Machu Piccu, Stonehenge, Abydos, the Pyramids at Giza… what do you think the monoliths, megaliths, monuments, Chitzen Itza, Teotihuacan… what do you think they are? They are our stories, the lessons on how to survive and where we ultimately come from… the dynamics of our eternity are in these ‘places of power’ holding our Ancestors’ knowledge.
But, that’s just how I swing. And I’ve learned from them. Constantly.
Like my own special anchor… so far from my genetic bloodlines but so well knit into my spiritual DNA, the Spider Rock at Canyon DeChelly… that is my holy place. It awakened me. And I learned how to make things and where things come from … all there. Then it happened again at the ‘heart chakra’ of the planet… Glastonbury, UK.
We are the land.
The land is us. Intimately.
Yeah… my gig IS the booga booga. LOL It’s physics too.
Now cmon, Gwen…not always physics and math with me. I HAVE been known to experience the inner conscious awakening of the booga booga.
In fact I was able to mathematically model the booga^2 to a precise Riemann zeta function using the gamma singularity of..
You can have my iPod when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
This post put me in mind of the book Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond.
Put me in mind of many things actually, very thought provoking.
I remember latching on to an official tour of Stonehenge and heard the tour guide say, “while the ancient Britons were building their stone monuments, the Egyptians were building the Pyramids.”
Cultures lacking in technology and wherewithal today can be dominant in a few hundred years time. If history tells us anything it’s that being the leader of the pack is a short lived event.
That was a great book man. It’s helped me to rebut teabagger “I’m not prejudiced but how come you guys never….” kind of arguments.
I met some of those people today with the I’m not prejudice, I have (insert ______ friend here). Couple of class mates and I went to go get some juice during break, and I happen to be sporting my gay ally/support tees this month, it being pride month and all. So we are in line and some older people in front of us, taking too long said go ahead of us, we haven’t decided yet. Older man looks at my shirt and says to me, oh you are one of those. I’m like one of what? EXACT wording, “a gays lover, don’t get me wrong I have a friend who has the gay”. I busted up laughing at him and the woman with him just got all red in the face, so we never got to finish the conversation.
Who talks like that anymore? A gays lover or they have “teh ghey”. You know, like a cold or something, I have booger snot running down my nose but it will go away tomorrow type of thing. Called the bff who is gay and relay the story to him, he says, next time tell them you think it is rubbing off on you being so close to us, so they might want to be careful who they stand next to in lines.
Jess-it’s catching? Dang. I may have to rethink my tolerance.
I was proud of my big girl, she marched in the Pride parade in the Red State she’s going to school in. She’s always had a gay friend or two. Any chance my baby is gay too? I don’t think so, if she is doesn’t change anything. I love her more than words can say, why would that affect anything?
The only thing I can say bad about being gay, and it’s actually about bigots not anyone being gay, is that it would sadden and anger me that anyone would ever prejudge someone I love.
:), yeah like I said, like a cold or something. If that was the case I should have been gay a long, long time ago with my one aunt and her now wife,the bff and a bunch of gay friends.
I’ve got that tiny fear that I may begin to look like Richard Simmons. Or maybe, Ricardo Simmons?
That was a good book. I think MH bought it for me on my 25th birthday a couple years back.
Gotta go back and reread it now.
I think I mentioned a few posts back, I have been re reading The Tao of Pooh to get some grounding. This posting ties into something I just finished reading a few days ago, about stopping and taking it all in. I think we all could use that advice, to get back to getting “in tune” like you said.
There is a chapter titled, “Bisy Backson”***, that sort of goes into this in some detail. Tells us to basically stop and smell the roses and view the wonder around us. One particular section, it talks about the very first of these Bisy Backson’s being the Puritans, that had come over and worked themselves to the bone, without getting much in return from the land. It then goes on to talking about how the American Indians showed them how to live in harmony with the earth. You know, plant at this time, harvest and let the earth relax at this time. Well we all know how that worked out, we are living it. We are sometimes too evolved for our own good.
***Rabbit was at Christopher Robin’s tree and C.R had that sign hanging outside. No one knew what a Backson was.
I am going to introduce another thought into this post. This was something that I have thought about from a previous post by Bee. Excellent post by the way concerning entropy.
Suppose that technology is thought of as entropy. The world originally was in a balanced pure state but with the gradual introduction of technology, this balanced state becomes chaotic.
As more technology progresses, the more chaotic the state of the earth balance. Pollution, war, depletion of resources.
Eventually this chaotic state become homogenized and universal, producing a “heat death” of present civilization. Interesting concept?
(little out there? Oh well…I swear…no magic mushrooms or anything. Just thinking out loud.)
If entropy is steady degeneration into chaos could nature have negative entropy (like anti-matter) which would be steady progress towards utopia to balance entropy?
figuratively dilated pupils staring fixedly and saying “I can see my hand man”.
and each atom was like a solar system,man….with people living on that world….whoa,dude!…..Our world could be just an atom on some other person’s finger….what was that? Did you hear that noise?…never mind, where was I?….oh ya….our entire universe could be a….
Exactly man. I remember years ago being “chemically altered” and using somebody’s kid siblings crayons to make an incredibly complex piece of art that everyone tripped on. Next day it turned out to be random idiotic scribbling.
That’s funny! Probably seemed sooo artistically profound at the time.
it’s analogous to the house finance reform bill-compared to the White Paper it was supposed to be based upon.
Your choices are three tribal societies. You’re right. If their environment had not been drastically altered by “civilized” influence and conquest they might have continued forever. But that is always the case in an increasingly, since ancient times, more global society. It’s easy to say this in retrospect. Less technologically advanced societies will always succumb to the more advanced, for better or for worse. Whether it is by invasion or influence, the technological have-nots will become the technologically savvy. In this era, you hope it is not the result of invasion and conquest. We might have the reverse problem now, which is exemplified by terrorist adopting digital technology to wreak havoc on those who invented the technology.
Being an Engineer,which means that I am risking the immediate forfeiture of my Starret Pocket Protector and Nestler Vintage Slide rule by saying this..The application of new technology almost always needs a cure of it’s symptoms 50 years later.
Lawyer, my friend, your statement about terrorists is called asymmetrical warfare.
“The application of new technology almost always needs a cure of it’s symptoms 50 years later,” you said.
To which Einstein might reply, “No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” Hence, we have to evolve or perish.
That was the PERFECT answer! Your moment of Zen, Lawyer.
This would be the moment in the courtroom where you turn to the Judge and say “Nuff said here, I’m out” and pick up your briefcase and walk out.
“…and furthermore, your honor, my client sayeth not!” he said slamming his fist on the table for added emphasis. The jury rose to their feet clapping and yelling excitedly. And then The Lawyer awoke. It was only a dream. It never happens like that.
I would say in the way that a bicycle is a superior form of transportation and locally grown organic produce the best form of food, your thought process is on a grand scale and is perfectly logical. Very good post man.
Stop the presses!! I agree with Oso!!!1 🙂 🙂
ROFLMAO!! Oh my gawd!! I am going outside to look for the rest of the signs of the apocalypse. Mike and Oso agree!
Mike wasn’t there one other time when you said you were getting really old and I agreed that you were ? 🙂 🙂
OSO, I must say that your narrative stories of history have really got me thinking about a lot of things.
Can you imagine…well,you I can, Oso…but other people imagine the symbiotic relationship with nature, buffalo herds 50 miles long and 10 miles wide. They used everything that the buffalo gave, nothing was wasted! They respected the bounty that was given to them and only took what they needed to survive.
I live here in Oklahoma, have for probably 30 of my 50 years, and I should have been more knowledgeable. My Great Great Grandmother was on the trail of tears, too afraid to mention anything when she married a white man, taking a different name.
Thank you Krell, I learn from and enjoy your writings here as well. Nice that our varied areas of knowledge here at Mikes often intertwine and lead us in new directions, or influence the old direction?
I’d heard some things about the Trail of Tears that are almost too sad to contemplate.
That is the thing here at MMA. The variety of expertise in so many subjects by some damn good writers! It ALWAYS is a good thought provoking process, visiting this site.
Long as it isn’t my f*ck*ng mother I’ll go with that mate
This is marvelous and I can’t stop thinking about it. I agree that those civilizations that respect their environment are likely to be more advanced than those who abuse their environment, at least in the long run. I am convinced that if there is a God it is Mother Nature. I am also convinced that you should never mess with Mother Nature. This has been submitted to Digg, Reddit, and etc. Very nice indeed!!!
Thank you Mike. We agree 100 percent on Mother Nature…she can be quite the enemy if not given proper respect! But she can also produce unimaginable wonders of beauty if given a chance.
Thinking is not always my strong point….but…it happens occasionally.
You are so so right old bean.
Will Aborigines destroy the world? Nope
Will Native Americans destroy the world? Nope (Unless one is in your armed forces and has the training and ability to press the appropriate button of course)
Will South African Bushmen destroy the world? Nope.
Oh dear….it’s down to us.
I’m digging my hole in the ground tomorrow…
4D, I disagree with the your assessment of the thinking part. You have laid down some very wise observations, my friend!