Why Aren’t Liberals Pro-Life?

Pro-life, pro-choice – This is easy for me

Despite what many commenters at MMA may think, I do try to keep an open mind on the issues. My willingness to listen to those of differing opinions and philosophies though, sometimes leads not to understanding and solution, but more confusion.

Perhaps the most confusing liberal position is on abortion. The liberal position is to help the weak and helpless in their struggles against the bid bad rich meanies. It would seem obvious to me that there is no one more weak and helpless than an unborn baby. Yet the left is virtually unanimous in supporting a pro-choice, as opposed to a pro-life, position.

Being pro-life is not a hard choice

I concede that not all woman who choose abortion are evil or tramps. I would of course concede that there are circumstances that the option of abortion should be available. So I won’t take an extreme position on this issue as too many of those on the right do, in my opinion to just pander to single issue zealots. But, having said all that, I do believe the vast majority of abortions are performed on women who just do not want their pregnancies to come to term because giving birth would just be inconvenient, and clash with their lifestyle.

Does life begin at birth, or at conception? This is the dividing argument, and it is amazing how this opinion is defined by which side of the political fence you sit. Laws are being passed at a State level restricting abortions, almost tempting the Federal Government to step in. I hope they do, I would love to see the next election fought with protection of the un-born front and center.

I do view abortion as a means of birth control as despicable. There are too many birth control options available to just chalk up an unwanted pregnancy to an accident or failed device or pill.

If there is someone on the left who can convince me that a baby is an inconvenience, subject to the whims of the woman carrying her is just and moral, I’m ready to listen.

pro-life

How would you define yourself?  Let us know what you think about either the pro-life or pro-choice position in the comments section.

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Posted by on May 31, 2011. Filed under Social Issues. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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52 Responses to Why Aren’t Liberals Pro-Life?

  1. woody

    May 31, 2011 at 9:51 am

    I am objectively pro-abortion.
    It should be available on demand, with no questions asked, cheap, and safe. I’ll let women determine the rarity of it. Anything else is repressive, patriarchal bullshit.

  2. dirk gently, sociopathetic

    May 31, 2011 at 10:04 am

    If you feel that way, don’t have an abortion. That’s what “pro-choice” means. With all those “differing opinions and philosophies,” what gives you the right to impose YOUR view of morality on someone else? How far are you willing to go to determine whether the circumstances warrant the option, or whether a device did indeed fail, or whether the woman just didn’t want an inconvenient baby? Should the IRS be investigating miscarriages?

    It’s clear enough what “pro-choice” means. “Pro-life” is an absolutely meaningless phrase. Go ahead, try and explain it. I dare you.

    • lovelovelove

      November 5, 2011 at 6:45 pm

      Pro-life is about not using abortion as a birth control method. Most pro-life activists believe that abortion should be used only if the life of the mother is in danger. It is about making sure that unborn children are not punished because of their mother’s actions. It is making everyone realize that life begins in the womb, as everyone started off that way.

      • Michael John Scott

        November 5, 2011 at 7:29 pm

        Unborn children? Please define. A loose collection of cells as exist in the first several weeks of pregnancy are nothing more than that. A loose collection of unthinking cells, rather like those you might find in a wad of mucus. No children. Just undefined cells.

      • Christi

        November 5, 2011 at 10:34 pm

        Because of the “mother’s choice”? Hello? Like a man didn’t help create the unwanted baby. How many men do you know who beg their girlfriend on the side to not have an abortion so he and his wife can raise it? Do you know how many men DEMAND that their girlfriend (or wife) gets an abortion? Some will kick women in the stomach or throw them down the stairs trying to kill the baby so they don’t have to pay child support. Stop blaming women for something that men are every bit as responsible for. Where are all the fathers of these babies begging the women to not have an abortion so they can raise it as a single dad? Its comical to even picture that. The ignorance and child like way of thinking of the Pro-Lifers is maddening.

  3. Eddie

    May 31, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Why do I not consider myself “pro-life”? Because it is nothing more than a vote getter. I see no indication that despite all your slogan shouting that you actually care for the little brats. Well, I have to give credit where it is due. When the Church finally got serious about taking on abortion in the era of the crusades, they alternative they provided were called “founding schools”. The same “schools” produced a 90 percent fatality rate. We couldn’t even get a 90 percent success rate for ANY major surgical operations even in during the Enlightenment!

  4. jenny40

    May 31, 2011 at 10:27 am

    This is about my right to chose, not the right of any particular individual, group or government to make the choice for me. I am as protective of life as anyone but I am also protective of my life and I don’t want some Jesus crazed fool telling me what to do with it. This is not a personal observation Mr. Milton because I don’t know you. It is a broad comment.

  5. psychedelikrelik

    May 31, 2011 at 10:34 am

    “There are too many birth control options available to just chalk up an unwanted pregnancy to an accident or failed device or pill.”

    And you’re an expert…how?

    When I got pregnant at 16, we had used birth control AND back-up birth control. Obviously, both failed.

    Without my parent’s knowledge and with the support of my partner, I had the abortion at about 8 weeks gestation. That was well over 30 years ago and I have never for one minute regretted the decision.

  6. psychedelikrelik

    May 31, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Tell ya what…when every single child in foster care has been adopted and has a forever home, and there is a six-month waiting list for the next adoptable child of ANY race, sex, physical or mental condition, maybe then we can talk about banning abortion.

  7. uzza

    May 31, 2011 at 10:41 am

    I do believe the vast majority of abortions are performed on women who just do not want their pregnancies to come to term because giving birth would just be inconvenient, and clash with their lifestyle.

    Why do you believe thus? Would you change your mind if the facts showed this to be erroneous? As they do.

    • d

      May 31, 2011 at 2:14 pm

      Wouldn’t it be nice if people would actually change a long-held belief in the face of contradictory evidence? But next you’ll be asking us to base our laws on facts and science rather than gut feelings from 4th century dogma

  8. Marvin

    May 31, 2011 at 10:48 am

    I am pro-choice.

    I think far too many people have children in this country (and this world) without truly thinking through it.

    I don’t see abortions as the problem, I see unplanned babies as a much bigger problem — one that we’ll have to take more seriously in the coming years.

  9. Eddie

    May 31, 2011 at 10:52 am

    I will also like to add that it it extremely sickening that you use the “contraceptives is always an option” point. Guess what? It is. It is effective. It is also something YOU “pro-life” people are fighting tooth and nail against!

  10. dave™©

    May 31, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Dear anti-abortion asshole,

    You get to decide when women get abortions when women get to decide when your balls get cut off.

    Now go fuck yourself.

  11. BigHarryH

    May 31, 2011 at 11:47 am

    The banning of abortions would only apply to poor or even middle-class women, the rich women could go anywhere to have things taken care of.

  12. JackieMackey

    May 31, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Sorry Milton you have no understanding of the way many women, of both political persuasions feel about this issue. A typical right-wing male’s view.

  13. woody

    May 31, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Does “Milton” really believe all women are murderous sluts, willing to kill of their off-spring for mere convenience?

    I Wonder if the women in “Milton’s” life–his wife/GF (well, it’s possible; anything’s possible), mother, sisters, or even (again it’s possible) daughters realize in what visceral contempt he holds all members of the gender. If you know any opf “Milton’s” female acquaintances, perhaps you could point out to them–though it should be plain–what an insufferable fucking pig he is.

  14. Christi Long

    May 31, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    I’m not a liberal or a conservative, I would never claim either side. But I am pro-choice and I would like to explain why.

    First, I am pro-choice because I’m afraid that without choice, religious zealots could make it so that a woman could not have an abortion, even if it was to save her own life. That is the “choice” that I strongly support. Not the choice to go out and party or drive a better car. I support the choice to choose to save your own life should one ever have to face such a difficult decision.

    Second, sometimes these mothers already have other children and having no choice could leave them motherless or neglected when the mother is too depressed to function over the trauma and financial burden of an unwanted child and the father is nowhere to be found.

    I don’t want a single child to ever have to hear “I wish you had never been born” let alone end up in a dumpster, a microwave or a lake. Or in the trunk of a car with duct tape around her little head. I want to save as many children as possible from that type of fate.

    Sure, some people contemplate abortion and do not go through with it and everyone lives happily ever after. We always hear about those stories. Its the other stories that we do not hear or CHOOSE to not hear.

    Turn on the news. Look at the number of children who are abused, sexually assaulted and killed at the hand of a parent (whether natural, adoptive or foster). ALL of them were unwanted. Why would a parent murder or abuse a child that they love and want? Most unloved children have a very painful life. I want to save children from that pain if at all possible because sometimes that pain lasts a lifetime.

    THIS is why I am PRO-CHOICE. And it doesn’t have a thing to do with politics or religion. It has to do with actually CARING about children along with the basic human right of self defense.

  15. d

    May 31, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    I have actually always been confused about the conservative position on abortion. It seems that conservatives are always against the government telling individuals what they should (recall the vitriol during the health care debate decrying government “death panels” and how terrible it would be for the government to have any involvement in an individual’s health decisions). Yet, when it comes to abortion the right is all for the government telling individuals which medical procedures they can and cannot have. It has always seemed to me that the issue is more about votes and getting the religious right energized about a candidate than anything else.

    Also, I disagree with the characterization: “The liberal position is to help the weak and helpless in their struggles against the bid bad rich meanies.” Would you appreciate it if I characterized the conservative position as a platform of bigoted religious fanaticism more concerned about ensuring CEOs don’t pay taxes than about their neighbors becoming homeless courtesy of those same CEOs? Even if we both believe those things, it doesn’t exactly make for a constructive discussion if all we do is sit back and trade insults (although that is probably what the internet is best for).

  16. dp1053

    May 31, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    No offence to anyone on this blog, but why are men even voicing their opinions? This has NOTHING to do with you guys, other than a momentary contribution. In my opinion, this is not an issue that government should be involved in either way, but since they have managed to butt their way in, no man should be allowed to vote on this issue.

  17. Pingback: Why Aren’t Liberals Pro-Life? | Foundation Life

  18. Milton Thornridge

    May 31, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    So far most of the excuses for abortion given by the commenters boil down to as I said, inconvenience. I’ve worked two jobs to make ends meet for my family. Just because babies are expensive doesn’t mean it’s okay to “terminate” to sanitize the phrase, them.

    Am I the only one in this forum that is truly for freedom? As in the freedom of the unborn to life? Is a baby inside the womb a worthless jumble of cells, unworthy of life and the rights of those outside?

    I conceded there are circumstances in which abortion would be acceptable, and even perhaps the best alternative. But the truth is less than two percent of abortions are actually performed to protect the life or health of the mother.

    • Eddie

      May 31, 2011 at 4:47 pm

      Oh, there you go again. Take another look and without the kool-aid.

      The responses are a combination of these two.

      1) It is NONE of your business
      and
      2) I do not want to hear that from a hypocrite

    • lazersedge

      May 31, 2011 at 10:17 pm

      Uncle Miltie, apparently you have not read the opinions with the “open mind” you profess to have, especially those of the females. I will reiterate and expand on them for you and it still won’t change your mind because you don’t want it to. First, and I think foremost, there is no medical evidence to support your claim the life begins at the point of conception. It is, very simply still a part of a woman’s body. As an alleged conservative you should support the restriction of government intrusion onto a woman’s right to choose to have a medical procedure done to her body. HER BODY! Not yours, not mine, HERS.
      Secondly, conservatives are in the process of striping away every resource possible from the poor and low income families who be faced with bearing children they cannot afford. Medicaid, which provides much of the care for these children is being cut past the bone. So, who will care for these children and there health care needs. You. No, folks like you will say “Well the parents should not have had them.” Perhaps you might be right except that you are part of the same bunch that fights making sex education and birth control available to teenagers who are the one group that needs it most. I have been in the field of criminal justice for over 40 years and therefore running into baby’s mommas that are 13, 14 and 16 years old. Yep, you conservatives are doing a great service of keeping the poor population growing. These children need the option, with parental consent, to undo a mistake that will forever alter their lives.
      Third, as pointed out in another post, have you actually looked into the unwanted, abused, and neglected children problem in this country? My bet is you haven’t and you should not even reply to this until you have. Why in the world would you want a woman to be forced to bear a child she doesn’t want, and know she doesn’t want when she first knows she is pregnant. Do you really want any child to go through the misery and hell that child is going to endure. Will that make you happy. If so, you are one sick puppy. Of course you do not know about things like that because you were most likely raised in an average but loving family, and you grew up knowing only people who were average but well loved kids, and most likely never knew the really troubled kids because they were not your type. You are a good father who loves his children and who do anything for them and would never abuse them, and you probably make sure they don’t hang out with “those kind” of kids. You know, those that get into trouble, don’t do well in school, don’t dress well, don’t act right, because most of them are the unwanted and unloved and have been that way from birth.
      Finally, Uncle Miltie, while I am not calling you names I do have a suggestion for you. Why don’t “walk a mile” in the shoes of some of these women before you judge them and while you are at it, check out the problems of these kids I have just mentioned and tell me how you would solve their problems.
      One other suggestion, and I mean this in a most sincere way, proof read your posts a little better before you publish them.

    • Uzza

      November 6, 2011 at 4:14 am

      It’s good to see that we both agree, as I too am totally for freedom. I will be moving in on Thursday.

      For the first half year or so I will give you a debilitating, possibly fatal, physical condition that will leave lifelong changes to your body even without the likely major surgery; then I will demand your constant attention every waking moment for many years without regard to how this will affect your health, earning power or quality of life.
      You will of course provide me with adequate housing, food, clothing, education, medical care and other needs even if it drives you into bankruptcy, for the next eighteen years.

      It’s good to see that you are truly for freedom and recognize that those of us outside the womb are not just a worthless jumble of cells, unworthy of life and the rights of a blastocyst.
      (BTW, my arrival will be Cash On Delivery to the tune of several thousand dollars. Have it ready.)

  19. Milton Thornridge

    May 31, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Go to the nearest maternity ward and drink some of that kool aid Eddie. Then tell me abortion is fine with you.

    • Eddie

      May 31, 2011 at 5:57 pm

      Personal preference has nothing to do with it, Milton. Now if you can just take a brain cell or two to, you know, refute my actual response….

    • lazersedge

      May 31, 2011 at 10:25 pm

      While you are standing there Uncle Miltie try to figure out which of those babies are going to be abused and neglected within 6 months of going home. You need to understand that there is a real world out there my friend. One or two of them may end up being the next Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy.

      • Eddie

        May 31, 2011 at 10:35 pm

        I know we have our disagreements (and I still won’t give up on the ineffectiveness of uniting the country with a draft thing), but I am happy that we are united in hating conservative intellectual light weights. This guy couldn’t even address one of my accusations and was reduced to spanking threats:D

        Here is the post before he tries to delete it. 😀

        Your imitation of me reminds me of bratty kids in the back seat on a long drive Eddie.

        Now run along before I have to give you a spanking young man.

        • lazersedge

          June 1, 2011 at 3:04 am

          Eddie, disagreements simply make for interesting discussions. Uncle Miltie means well but like many conservatives most of arguments are just that, arguments.

  20. Milton Thornridge

    May 31, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    I did refute your response Eddie. But if calling me a hypocrite makes you feel like a liberal hero then by all means, go buy yourself a cape and appear on The Daily Show.

    • Eddie

      May 31, 2011 at 7:48 pm

      Oh, my, my, my! I accused your side of being annoying interventionists, hypocrites, and denying us contraceptive choices, which even you admit is effective. What I got is your eyes glazing over what you do not want to see and you insisting, with no proof, that we we are saying is that “it is inconvenient”. Does playing victim help stroke your ego? Does acting all defensive make your conservative hero chest go puff-puff?

  21. Milton Thornridge

    May 31, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Your imitation of me reminds me of bratty kids in the back seat on a long drive Eddie.

    Now run along before I have to give you a spanking young man.

    • Eddie

      May 31, 2011 at 10:11 pm

      LOL. Just….wow. I been waiting for your response for some time and…LOL. I thought you were writing a long post or something. Even now, you can’t even respond to ONE of my points! My God! Please tell me that you didn’t go to college because if you did, I really regret all the s*** I went through! Jesus! Are you so much an intellectual light weight that all you can do is get pissed that I throw your post right back at you and threaten to spank me? HAHAHA! You got a fetish for a young male asses or something?

    • Christi

      November 6, 2011 at 1:40 pm

      Milton, Eddie was once an embryo. Then he was a fetus. He was the same person then that he is now according to your logic. He is just a larger version of that same collection of cells.

      You are disrespecting a highly valued life that was once a fetus and you keep saying you want to spank him. So, you want to abuse a cherished life. Why is it okay to want harm the same life that you profess to care so much about just because he is a larger version of himself?

  22. Milton Thornridge

    May 31, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Your response indicates you have been sufficiently spanked little Eddie. Now go to bed junior. The adults need a respite from your immaturity.

    • Eddie

      May 31, 2011 at 10:42 pm

      Ohhhhhhh! I’m so scared! My God, why did they hire you when you can’t even refute one point? Can’t you at least challenge my accusation that you guys are fighting the use of contraceptives? You wanna spank laseredge’s 40 plus year old ass too? I see you can’t even respond to one of his points either. Come on you intellectual lightweight. Show me what you got.

  23. RickRay

    May 31, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    From the articles I read and videos I see about the pope and the vatican it seems that it’s okay to be pro-pedophile since punishment of priests is seldom enforced. I am pro-choice, because I was never raped and I don’t have to raise an unwanted child who would likely be involved in crime and drugs if he knew he was never wanted. I’ve seen enough single mothers who choose to keep their child and do a great job of raising their child because they want to. I’ve met others who are nothing but a burden on society and continue to perpetuate the circle their mothers started.

    • lazersedge

      June 1, 2011 at 3:10 am

      Rick you make an excellent point about single mothers. I know a number of them who chose to have their child and have done a wonderful job of being both mother and father to them. Others that do not have an option of abortion will have children who are a high risk of being abandoned, neglected or abused. Many of them will, in one way or another, become a societal problem.

  24. lovelovelove

    November 5, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    I believe that abortion should be made illegal, unless the woman has to get the abortion to save her own life. Having an abortion just because birth control failed is disgusting – it is well known that it is possible to get pregnant even with birth control, and a child should not be punished because of the choice made by its mother.

  25. Milton Thornridge

    November 5, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    It’s good to know there are people like you willing to speak up on these left leaning message boards in defense of the unborn.

    • Christi

      November 6, 2011 at 9:04 am

      If you do not like “left leaning message boards”, why are you here? Just looking for a reason to start an argument with a total stranger on the internet?

  26. Milton Thornridge

    November 6, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    I’m endeavoring to enlighten those who’ve chosen the easy path of liberalism to a moral and spiritual better life and thought Christi.

    If you think just posting on the boards of libs that agree with you is somehow making things better than I pity your closed mind.

    • Christi

      November 6, 2011 at 1:10 pm

      Milton, my mind is as open as the Grand Canyon and yours is closed as tight as Fort Knox. I am not a Liberal, I am not a conservative. I am a free thinker in every sense of the word.

      Let me ask you a question, how often have you been “enlightened” by a liberal? How many times have you considered changing your opinion on abortion based on an opposing view? Have you ever waivered in your stance? Do you think you could possibly become pro-choice by visiting these forums? If the answer is no, why can’t you respect the fact that others feel as strongly about their opinion as you do and the odds of being “enlightened” by you are as slim as your being enlightened by them.

      I love a good debate, but you are not offering one. Come on….enlighten me.

      • Milton Thornridge

        November 6, 2011 at 4:38 pm

        I have seen the point of choice when life and health issues of the mother and child are at stake. These are difficult decisions and I believe the parents, with the input of doctors and their clergy, should make that decision themselves.

        To be frank, if their clergyman is willing to let a person die when she could be saved from a fatal birth experience, my advice would be to find another clergyman.

        Abortion as a means of birth control is despicable and I am totally against that.

      • Michael John Scott

        November 7, 2011 at 7:20 pm

        I love a good challenge!! The gauntlet has been laid…..

  27. Masha

    October 18, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Thanks for your thoughts. I am, I suppose, a “liberal,” although I really dislike labels such as this. I believe in supporting the poor, including providing free education and medical care to all. I am opposed to capital punishment. I would love to see strict gun laws in place and to drastically limit our country’s military budget. I am horrified by our country’s use of drones. I wish we would pay more attention to preserving our environment and less to preserving the corporations. I respect all religious doctrines, including Islam and even atheism, so I don’t think that I am a right-wing religious fanatic.

    I have often wondered to myself why “liberals” are so inconsistent in their beliefs. Obviously, those who believe in abortion “rights” believe that people who are bigger and stronger should have more rights than those who are small and weak. And I am tired of hearing, “If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t have one!’ You could just as well say, “If you don’t believe in rape, don’t rape anyone!” We do not give people a “choice” to rape or shoot their neighbor in the head. Choice is not the answer to everything!

    Sorry, but this is not about religion dictating to individuals how to run their lives. It is about whether our society condones the taking of innocent human life. Unfortunately, it does. I wish that those who are pro-choice would just be honest and admit that killing people is unethical, but sometimes we allow it, because we really want the option.

    And oh yes, I am a woman, not a “clueless male.”

    • Michael John Scott

      October 19, 2012 at 12:07 pm

      I don’t agree that life begins at conception, and I don’t believe there’s an old man sitting on clouds manipulating the earth. Both are myths designed by the religious to suit their beliefs.

  28. Jessica

    November 9, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    I am strongly pro-life. I believe that at conception, it is a child. For those of you who may have differing opinions than me, consider these few points before condemning my way of thinking.
    If the child that was about to be aborted had a choice as to whether or not it would live or die, what do you think it would choose? It is very sad to think that the mother’s decision only affects the mother, when in reality it takes away the choice for that child.
    If you kill a pregnant woman, it is considered a double homicide. Why is that? If the unborn fetus is not a child, shouldn’t it just be a single homicide? If we legally consider the death of a pregnant woman as a double homicide, then isn’t it legally appropriate to consider an abortion as a homicide?
    It’s true, there are some cases of abortion that seem justifiable, such as rape or incest. You have to consider this though: why is it lawful to punish the child for what the father has done wrong? It’s true that the mother may have negative feelings towards that child. If she does, then she can put it up for adoption where there are plenty of parents who are more than willing to take that child under their roof.
    I understand most people believe that by being pro-life, I am taking away the choice of that mother when I don’t understand her circumstances, and that may be true.
    Though, there is one thing I do understand…
    Think back to the time before you were born, when your parents might have been deciding whether or not to abort you. Aren’t you glad that they chose to let you live? That you got that opportunity?
    Now tell me…why would you deny anyone that right?

    • christi

      November 9, 2012 at 10:01 pm

      Bless your heart, I know you mean well and have a caring heart and that makes you see things this way….but if I had been aborted I would not know it. I wouldn’t exist so there would be no way to “think about” anything. Just like when someone has a miscarriage, the baby does not ponder on what might have been because it was never aware that it existed.

      You seem to think that most unwanted babies have this awesome life after they are born. They don’t. While a few might, the majority of them have drug addicted parents or they are drunks, many are too lazy to get up and change their diapers so they lie there in their own waste while open sores absorb the bacteria into their system. Many are beaten for simply crying. Some are thrown in swamps. Others are set on fire or put in microwaves. Then there are others who are molested or raped. Google “baby Brianna Lopez” to get an idea of what can happen to an unwanted baby.

      I am anti-suffering and most unwanted babies suffer a LOT after they are forced to be brought into this world. Should we ban hysterectomies? Think of all the potential little babies that die. What about vasectomies? More little babies being deprived of life. Maybe we should have $20,000 funerals for miscarried fetuses and embryos. Wonder why people don’t do that?

      None of us want to kill babies. It is just that a human life under a certain stage of development does not know it is here and is unable to feel pain. And most of the time an unwanted baby is a lot better off ending the
      suffering before it begins….after it is born.

      • ProLeben

        April 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm

        “Most”. Statistical proof please.
        Furthermore, comments like yours promote a worldview that is afraid of suffering, it encourages meta-suffering, suffering about suffering by telling people who have suffered that they should’ve just been aborted, that their suffering is meaningless and that their life is objectively bad and their own personal perspective on their own life is irrelevant, that because of how much the person suffered it would’ve been better for them not to be there, to which I say “f you!). That is what you are communicating to other people. There may be people in this world who would’ve lived but after reading your post commit suicide.
        Why should it matter whether it “knows it is here” or is “unable to feel pain”? Even if it wasn’t aware it existed it was still experiencing life, without being able to ponder what it means, sure but still taking in stimuli from its environment and hence experiencing life. Even a newborn baby is not aware of its own existing i.e. it doesn’t think about it, it just perceives its environment. Should it be legal to kill it?

        And I am in fact unable to feel pain. It’s a rare condition where pain receptors don’t work. I lost the vision in my left eye as a toddler because I was just playing in that area and scratched it up. Last year I nearly lost all my blood because I hadn’t noticed my arm got caught on a sharp object. It isn’t an easy thing to live with but I’m glad to be alive. Your post implies that it should be legal for people to murder me and that I should’ve just been aborted since while I may not have been abused or neglected I have certainly had a great deal of suffering I’ve been through. This is very offensive.

        I am having a great life. I have a wife and 2 kids. One of which is autistic. I suppose you would have that one aborted.

        You are the best argument for the pro-life position. It shows how abortion leads to narratives that cheapen the value of human life, that encourage a worldview that makes suffering worse than it is, and that could ultimately be expanded to be used against everyday people not just unborn babies.