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bellthompson58
10 years ago

I object to this headline. I’m a republican but I’m also an atheist, so I’m not weeping dude, I’m rejoicing. Not all republicans are “Jesus Jumpers.”

spitz
Reply to  bellthompson58
10 years ago

Pointing out that you’re an atheist Republican or that “Not all Republicans are Jesus Jumpers” is as meaningful as pointing out that most 18-30 year olds are members of religions.No one who saw the headline assumed that 18-3o year old religious people no longer existed, and they don’t need you to point out that you don’t jump for Jesus either.

bellthompson58
Reply to  spitz
10 years ago

And nobody needs you to tell them what to write in their bloody comments so sod off!

josell
10 years ago

They prefer things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUZMxeWybGY

Bill Formby
10 years ago

I think the people who are listing “none” are simply fed up with organized religion as such. I think this is different than do you believe in some type of higher power than yourself. Young people these days have far more knowledge about the realities of “what is up there” meaning in the sky than many of us did as kids. Similarly, in the old days when the preachers used to tells we were going down the the fiery pits of hell, there was no way we could conceive that there wasn’t any such place. With the scientific knowledge young people have today its only natural to call bullshit on that. Most have been taught about the big bang and evolution, but still some question if all of the just happened by accident or by Intellectual Design (ID) or in more and more cases even alien visitation. In any case the organized religions are being seen for what they really are, just a way to scam money from people and to control they way they live.

Reply to  Bill Formby
10 years ago

I like your last sentence a lot. As I have said for decades, “Religion was invented so that a small group of people could control the thoughts, actions, and speech of a larger group.”

I also have pointed out that any totalitarian organization, be it religion government or even social group fist must control your sex life.

They all know that, when they can control when, how, and with whom you have sex, controlling the rest is easy.

10 years ago

I’m just saying that in terms of social stigma, it’s cool to be a Wiccan or a Buddhist. It’s not cool to be a Protestant or a Catholic. It was never cool to be a Jew. Fortunately we had the ethnic thing going, and that was cool.

The Wiccans I know, aren’t real Wiccans. They waft around burning incense and saying “blessed be,” to each other, just as today’s Drugstore Buddhists walk around saying “Namaste.”

My whole point – and remember, I speak as an ardent Atheist and anti-relionist, is that certain “religions” have picked up a social cache that they never had, at least until the ’60s. It is now, cool to be a Buddhist – by which I mean, to self-righteously spout Buddhist truisms, whereas old school Bible beaters are seen as squares. Buddhism, like its sister religion, Wicca has no more basis in reality, than does the lunacy that is Islam or Catholicism. But, they do have more panache.

Reply to  bitcodavid
10 years ago

It’s “cool” meaning fashionable? I like the thoughts of Oscar WIlde. “Fashion, a form of ugliness so severe we much change it every six months.”

Next might be the FSM or that Pink Unicorn.

Reply to  James Smith
10 years ago

Yes. Fashionable. And I too, subscribe to Mr. Wilde’s interpretation of fashion.

E.A. Blair
Reply to  bitcodavid
10 years ago

So you’re speaking as someone who has only been an outsider. I was part of the Pagan community when I lived in Chicago, and was deeply involved. It’s how I met my wife. I served as a community spokesman, dealt with the media, was interviewed by reporters and appeared on talk radio. On a regular basis, I dealt with people who either were marginalized because of their practice or feared becoming so – and with good reason.

When I was a defendant in a traffic case in Illinois criminal court, the States’ Attorney brought up my Pagan affiliation as an attempt to portray me as immoral and criminal (they judge didn’t go for it). Years later, as the plaintiff in a civil suit, I was again asked about my Pagan past. You are speaking with authority about something you haven’t seen from the inside.

Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

True. I’ll give you that. I’m not a Pagan, a Christian, a Muslim or even a Jew, in the religious sense. Spencer, Nietzsche,Wagner and even Hitler, all agree that Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion – so I’m stuck with that.

I’m not trying to be insensitive. I’m sure that as an active Pagan, you experienced bigotry and misunderstanding.

All I’m saying is that in modern urban America, the alternative religions have picked up a lot of good PR, as Christianity has become viewed as closed-minded and intolerant – which of course, it is.

Jess
Reply to  bitcodavid
10 years ago

So I do get confused by the Jewish thing, I admit it. Someone being Jewish is like me being part Indian (dot, not feather), Puerto Rican and other things isn’t it? If you(generic) follow Judaism that is the religion like Christianity am I getting that right?

10 years ago

It is nice to know I was way ahead of the curve. A fiscal conservative and social libertarian who voted republican. Unfortunately for the party it doesn’t realize why it losing relevance.

Libertarian Party 2026 and beyond!…

10 years ago

Perhaps the lower voting record among the “nones” indicate a dissatisfaction with more than the BS of religion?

E.A. Blair
10 years ago

I have to wonder if the trend towards “no religion” of indifference to religion comes, not from actual attitudes, but a greater willingness to voice one’s true opinion. Social pressure has been known to induce people to marginalize their responses to questions about sensitive topics like religion, sex or drug use even in anonymous surveys. Years ago, lots of people would not have self-identified as gay for any reason. Now, the reasons for staying in the closet are fewer.

Americans can be even more prejudiced when it comes to religion than with things like sexual behavior or matters of morality (although much of such bigotry is given religious justification). Many surveys have shown that voters would be more reluctant to vote for an atheist than a Muslim or an openly gay candidate. It can be even worse for members of non-statndard religions – go to a gathering of NeoPagans and ask how many Wiccans are in the broom closet because they fear for their jobs or personal safety.

Jess
Reply to  Professor Mike
10 years ago

Where Wicca is kind of a religion, Buddhism is more a philosophy of life is my take on them. My aunt is a practising Wiccan and we keep telling her one of these days she’ll eventually get it right when she makes Johnny Depp appear at my door. Not for nothing but they have the coolest Sabbats (festivals) at certain seasons in the year. The summer solstice and Samhain are two that I love to participate in.

E.A. Blair
Reply to  Jess
10 years ago

Reply to Jess:

My parents tried to raise me as a Catholic (they didn’t succeed), so I grew up with ritual and actually rather like it. Every few years or so, I actually take in a Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve, although it’s getting harder and harder to find a parish that has one these days.

Although I find their tendency towards excessive mysticism to become somewhat annoying at times*, I find Pagans to be better company than most conventionally religious people and the rituals satisfy my nostalgia for the ceremonies I grew up with and are more fun**. One person I know lamented the fact that more and more ex-Protestants are becoming Pagans because they aren’t used to ritual. Ex-Catholics, she says, are much better at it.

*Wiccans, in particular, have a tendency to be rather dogmatic – apologies to your aunt, Jess.

**My particular favorite was Beltane, which, since it is a celebration of fertility, we closed by reciting our favorite bawdy limericks. “There once was a girl from Madrid…”

Jess
Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

The ‘rents never did much of anythign with me as far as religion went. I was free to come and go as I pleased and figure it all out for myself. Dad was a devout Catholic and mom was Presbyterian. I do mass when it’s for functions like funerals wedding and baptisms, nothing much else. My aunt would likely say the same thing, so no need for apologies. Someone else that likes the dirty limerick’s like hubby and I do. You just cannot find like minded people like this anymore 🙂

Reply to  Jess
10 years ago

There once was a girl from Madrass,
Who had a magnificent ass,
Not pretty and pink, as you probably think,
It was gray, had long ears, and ate grass.

Reply to  James Smith
10 years ago

@ James – Hahahahahahahahahaha! Never saw it coming, either!

– Yes, you are correct. A Jew can be non-religious, even Atheist. In fact, A converted Jew who is now a Catholic, is still a Jew. We’re actually 2 races, Sephardim and Ashkenazim. I am the latter. Most Eastern European Jews are Ashkenazim.

E.A. Blair
Reply to  James Smith
10 years ago

There was a poetic young man
Whose limericks never would scan
When told this was so,
He said, “Yes I know”,
“But I always try to put absolutely as many words in the last line that I very possibly can”.

As for the girl from Madrid,
She dallied one day with a squid.

bellthompson58
Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

Ha! Delightful!

Reply to  Professor Mike
10 years ago

There is a darker side t Buddhism. In some Buddhist schools, they teach people, including children that, if they are having a hard time in this life, it s because thee are the reincarnated soul of someone that was evil in a previous life.

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/4021/the-dark-side-of-buddhism

Karma, you know. It follows you everywhere.

Reply to  Professor Mike
10 years ago

The above should have been in reply to your statement. Sorry 🙁

Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

Let’s try ‘er again.

I have to respectfully disagree. Wiccans are, if nothing else, the hippest of the world’s religions. Nowadays, with the surging popularity of stuff like Reiki and other non-standard health and well being pursuits, Wicca is not only accepted by the Middle Class, but seen as cool. Women wearing pentagrams and fertility amulets are not only commonplace, but quite fashionable.

Add to that, the Feminist element of a religion that honored Goddesses rather than Gods, and you’ve got a recipe for Postmodern Celeb culture chic.

It’s kind of like having a Gay friend. Nowadays, you’re nobody unless you have a Gay friend.

Jess
Reply to  bitcodavid
10 years ago

Hey I am still nobody and my best friend since middle school is one of “teh gheyz”. He treats me terribly but I haven’t yet found a replacement willing to put up with me, so I keep him around 😉

Reply to  Jess
10 years ago

🙂

E.A. Blair
Reply to  bitcodavid
10 years ago

And I disagree with you. There may be some circles in which NeoPaganism is hip and trendy, but know several people who are afraid they’d lose their jobs is their NeoPagan affiliation became known. One of them is a public school teacher who calls herself a “stealth Pagan”. Some who do let their religious practice become known are subjected to humiliating comments and jokes. Quite a number of Pagan women have lost custody of their children in divorces because of their religion. In 1999, Candidate Dumbya, commenting on the Wiccans holding ritual at Fort Hood, said that it was not a religion and had no right to be practiced in the United States. At about the same time, Representative Bob Barr of Georgia tried to pass a law outlawing Wicca in the military.

I don’t see it as being quite as fashionable as you think it is. Can you name any prominent celebrities who are openly NeoPagan (Wicca or otherwise)? Plenty of Scientologists, maybe, but the only people I can come up with off the top of my head who aren’t Pagan celebrities but prominent people who are Pagan are Margot Adler and Tina Weymouth, and neither of those are exactly household names.

Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

Very interesting. I honestly can’t say I’ve ever known anybody who feared losing their job over this. As to Dubya – well… what can I say? We’re still paying the national tab for his idiocy. I know tons of people (no celebs) who run around and say “Namaste” to each other. We call ’em Yoga Chicks. Most of ’em think India is a kind of ink!

Jess
Reply to  E.A. Blair
10 years ago

I did a short survey with a couple of friends here in the city. Patrick Stewart is supposedly Gardnerian whatever that is. I’m too lazy and hot as hell right now to go look it up. Gotz to find some shade to lay in for a minute and grab a beer or three.

Jess
10 years ago

We need to bottle those tears of impotent rage from the GoOpers, they will sell well 🙂 Damn kids and their heathen ways I tell you. What’s next cats and dogs living together, gays getting married and being equal wait…what. Ok then, carry on.

10 years ago

Yay!

10 years ago

Wonderful news! Is it possible the insanity of religion could actually come to an end within this century?

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