Bill of Rights – The New Uncluttered Version

What’s all this fuss in the news? Statements by government officials about stuff like secret cables and WikiLeaks? They should just go ahead and change the Bill of Rights to its present modern form. Make it easier to explain the hypocrisy of their actions.

Sometimes the Constitution is just too inconvenient. Obviously many politicians would prefer to dump a few of those more confusing amendments- then it would be legal to continue to ignore them!

You’ve had a garage sale before, right? Let’s get rid of that clutter and streamline things.

So what are the changes to be made? How do we know what is the good stuff and what goes out to the curb?

First let’s look at the actions of political and government officials, and allow them to show us- by example- which rights we ought to keep.

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition.

Interesting how freedom of speech, when it comes to the internet and tweets by cell phones, seems to apply only when the protest is by the population of some other country.

When Iran and China had dissidents that were using the “new social media” to get information out to the world about the atrocities of their government, they were hailed here as citizen fighters and heroes using new technology for freedom. But when information is published by WikiLeaks, there are calls for his assassination.

Servers sites are pressured by politicians like Lieberman to drop hosting. Companies like PayPal, Visa, and MasterCard suddenly find ways to stop their services. Mumblings of the possibility of espionage charges against Julian Assange, who isn’t even a US citizen.

Can you imagine China asking the United States for extradition of a Tibetan in the United States to face espionage charges in China?

First Amendment of the Bill of Rights? It was a nice idea at one time but c’mon.. get rid of it. Not really being used.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

From FBI raiding homes of protesters…..here

GPS tracking of a vehicles without warrants because of their religion or ethnicity…here

To GPS tracking of cell phones…here

Special software designed specifically for mass surveillance…here

Seizures of computers by anyone who is a friend or acquaintance of Bradley Manning…here

This one is a no-brainer. Fourth Amendment can be completely removed without a trace. In fact, even talking about the Fourth Amendment will probably get you arrested.

Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

Due process, double jeopardy, and self-incrimination doesn’t seem to be applicable if you find yourself in some secret prison or solitary confinement until you go ape-shit crazy. If you are being water-boarded, that may take precedence over worrying if they are going to take your house by eminent domain.

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Obama assassination program allows for the targeting of US citizens…here

Extraordinary rendition and torture programs along with Guantanamo prison…here

This isn’t even a question. Sixth Amendment of the Bill of Rights?? Didn’t you learn anything about that box of old 8-track tapes? Obsolete and taking up space. Get rid of it

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury. In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

With the “who’s got the note” foreclosure mess and the expedited kicking people out on the street, you have to think that since the Rockets Dockets aren’t being stop, they must have approval. Also increased use of arbitration with possible conflict of interests that may affect fairness, this amendment is the box of 70’s clothes that has to go.

Florida Court “Rocket Docket” blasts through cases in 20 seconds…here

Matt Taibbi investigates Florida court system…here

Homeowner creates ridiculously complicated chart to plot mortgage mess…here

So there you have it. The original first 10 amendments taken down to a new streamlined version.

It went from 10 original to just 5 by taking out those confusing part time  “we follow them only when it’s convenient” amendments.

Who knows? The list may even get shorter in the future.

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56 Responses to Bill of Rights – The New Uncluttered Version

  1. Stimpson Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Anyone who’s been paying attention knows the important rights today are corporations’ rights. Luckily, U.S. and other world leaders have made sure those rights are vigorously protected via NAFTA, the WTO, etc.

    • Krell Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 2:34 pm

      Very good point, Stimpson. The Citizens United ruling showed what really matters.

  2. lazersedge Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Krell, didn’t you see this coming with the so called Patriot Act. This isn’t anything new. This country has been hypocritical since its inception except everyone was drinking the Kool Ade. Remember, we started with document that said “…all men are created equal…” written and signed by men who owned slaves. We slaughtered Native Americans for their lands. When we went to war with Japan we interred American citizens of Japanese descent without mention of any of the Bill of Rights. We denied Blacks and women the right to vote and the right to own real property until it was forced upon us. In point of fact should not the Bill of Rights more properly be named the Bill of Wrongs in view of all the ways the government has found to walk on and around the so called rights in the name of National Security.

    • Krell Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 3:43 pm

      Everything you say is the truth, Lazer. It seems like the Bill of Rights should be called the “Bill of what we should strive for”.

      Change has come about little by little since the founders.

      I just hope we can get a little closer to the end goal before the empire expires into a “should have done that, what the hell happened” third world nation.

      • greenlight Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 4:59 pm

        I agree with Lazer on this one–there is almost inevitably a disjunction between the written word and reality, whether it be in regard to company policy (I bet at the Swiss bank mentioned in another posting, at least an occasional banker will allow their nails to grow a millimeter or so longer than is allowable without being immediately called on it) or in a document as significant as the Bill of Rights. That said, at least we’re smart enough to hold our nation to the highest of standards in principle if not always in practice, but also to have a legal structure that allows the courts to adapt quickly when circumstances warrant something other than what our historic standards would allow.

        This posting highlighted some concerning practices, but I suspect few of them exist on a wide scale. The benefit to NOT trashing the Bill of Rights like an old pile of 8-tracks is that it still provides a basis for challenging questionable practices through the courts–leaving it to the courts to decide whether those challenges are justifiable under present-day circumstances, as has always been the case in our structure, with judicial interpretation being as much of a legal reality for us as the Amendments.

        Besides, trashing the Bill of Rights wouldn’t likely do sh*t for storage space, so I suppose we’re just as well to keep it around. 🙂

  3. The Lt. Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Mr. Krell you and see our country differently. I thank her for everything she has given me. Is she perfect? Of course not but who is? I have carefully read your “research” and quite frankly am surprised at its lack of depth. While some of these isolated instances may well be true this is not what America is about. Finally, and I don’t mean this as an insult, I would wager you have never served in the armed forces. This is not necessarily an indictment, as most have not, however it has been my experience that those who have served have a much greater appreciation of their homeland. Did you ever consider moving to another country?? Have you ever spent significant time in another country? If you had you would know that America is still head and shoulders above most others in almost all respects, perhaps discounting our very poor health care system. Have a nice day and thanks for sharing your thoughts. This is what I like about this place. An open forum for many different opinions.

    • Krell Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 3:55 pm

      I think that you have more of a “Love it or Leave it” type approach.

      But keeping blinders on to what this country is doing to about 80 percent of the population is not helping one bit. Just allowing the upper 5% to gain more and more control of every aspect of what is supposed to be a country for everyone.

      Plus loving your country by keeping quite while it invades another country illegally is not in it’s best interest.

      And don’t take this as an insult, but I would wager that you HAVE served in the military, that you have at least 5 guns in your household, that you drive a pickup truck, and you haven’t been to the dentist in over 12 years.

      • The Lt. Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 4:16 pm

        Actually I am IN the military stationed overseas as we speak. I recently finished three tours fighting your illegal wars. I did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. I was wounded during my last tour but not like the real heroes who can never fight again.

        I drive a Toyota, and own no guns. The only weapons I ever use are those given to me before combat. I hate to use them, but know that this country was built on conflict and it is sometime necessary.

        I am a West Point graduate and hold a master’s degree in international relations. I was at the dentist last week. I was shot in the mouth and I have to go often so as to determine damage and potential infection.

        You have a nice day Mr. Krell.

        • A Michael J. Scott Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 4:21 pm

          Lieutenant I salute you for your service to our nation.

        • oso Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 4:24 pm

          They aren’t Krell’s illegal wars, Lt. They unfortunately are the people of Iraq and Afghanistans illegal wars, since they are the victims.
          Serving in the military was your choice, the Iraqis and Afghanis had no choice in the matter.

          • A Michael J. Scott Reply

            December 17, 2010 at 4:41 pm

            Actually O-man Krell characterized them as “illegal” wars. Since that is clearly not the case they are Krell’s “illegal” wars.

            Peace as always my friend.

            Obama 2012 🙂

            • oso Reply

              December 17, 2010 at 4:47 pm

              I think Krell’s point is, both are what Justice Jackson termed “The supreme international crime, wars of aggression” at Nuremberg.
              Both were wars of choice, and misguided. No military can pick or choose, they go where they are sent. I would suggest that when the military member’s duty is weighed against the victim nation’s citizens lives, in an objective sense the victim’s right to live would outweigh the military members duty.

              • A Michael J. Scott Reply

                December 17, 2010 at 4:55 pm

                Sorry my friend. As a student of that era I cannot see any comparison to the war waged by Germany and those fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. Secondly, when the military starts second guessing their commanders and start questioning the “morality” of conflict (morality is in the eye of the beholder) the country will be doomed if we aren’t anyway. All empires rise and all empires fall. We are no different.

                • Stimpson Reply

                  December 17, 2010 at 5:00 pm

                  I’m with Kofi Annan on this: The Iraq incursion was illegal. It violated the UN Charter.
                  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3661134.stm

                • oso Reply

                  December 17, 2010 at 5:03 pm

                  The comparison is this – Germany did not need to invade Poland or France, they chose to do so anticipating easy victory. Neither Poland nor France were a threat to German security, but Germany essentially wanted to control them.

                  Same with Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither was a threat, we anticipated easy victories, far easier than Germany’s. Iraq bore us no ill will, yet we slaughtered them.
                  Afghanistan MAY have had some Al Qaeda there – created by us – but the planning for 9/11 was performed in Germany, Spain and the US. We chose the micro military show.

                  We did what Germany did, just with weaker foes. Like Germany, we occupy these weaker nations. Can’t blame the Wehrmacht, but you can blame the General Staff and the leadership. Same here.

                  • A Michael J. Scott Reply

                    December 17, 2010 at 5:29 pm

                    Actually Germany invaded Czechoslovakia first. When there was no national outcry they decided to go for Poland. War was then declared and the rest is history.

                    As to Iraq and the Iraqis I would have left them to their own devices. They have been killing each other for years. Let them keep doing it. Trying to bring civilization (as we understand it) to this corner of the world is an exercise in futility. We did not go there and slaughter [wantonly] thousands of innocent Iraqis and there is no evidence at all of that.

                    I agree that we had no business being there but it was not an “illegal” war. The United States articulated a nuclear threat, albeit based on false or manufactured evidence, and proceeded accordingly, even announcing the date and time of attack. The United Nations did nothing.

                    Afghanistan is a different critter. I don’t think we should be there, but not for humanitarian reasons. The fact is, however, the Afghans are much better off with us there, especially the women.

                    As to al Qaeda’s presence it was huge. It was their home base. The 9/11 attacks were PLANNED by al Qaeda in Afghanistan. It is important to remember this is not some rag tag group of crazies. They are ideologically dedicated to destroying the west and they have millions of members and billions of dollars. It is an army with a cellular structure and the head of the beast is somewhere around Afghanistan and protected by the Taliban.

                    If it were up to me I wouldn’t shed precious American blood in that shit hole. There would be no boots on the ground. Of course that is rolling the dice. Another well planned and coordinated attack on the United States would doubtless happen if we are not there and the Afghans are not ready to tame the beast. In that case we just drop a few nukes on the pricks and damn the consequences. After all it is not our war is it?

                    • oso

                      December 17, 2010 at 5:38 pm

                      Actually you could say they occupied the Ruhr first, then the plebescite in Czeckslovakia-or was it the Austria thing, anschluss or whatever it was called?
                      It’s interesting in that Rumsfeld tried to do the same “war on the cheap” blitzkrieg in a sense too.

                    • Jess

                      December 17, 2010 at 9:41 pm

                      According to many reports the whole “the women are better off since we are there” is not entirely true. Things have gotten worse for many of these women, since we decided to bomb them back into the stone age. Sad but true, girls are still not going to school for fear of being attacked. Women are still being raped and killed by the warlords. They want us gone from there and I for one say, give them what they wish for. We are fighting in an area that has always been a graveyard for empires.

                      As far as the bill of rights, I’m with George Carlin on this one, if they can take them away(see Patriot Act) they were never rights we held, more like suggestions. I would say many of them are being continually shredded and what is even more depressing, we have an admin that should know better and still is continuing the path the last admin took. Not a good thing when, if allowed, many of these people would take away everything except that 2nd amendment. You know that is the most important one to many people.

                      One of my peeves has been brought up, who is to say that because someone never served in uniform, they are less of a patriot or they don’t appreciate the country more than the one in a uniform. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost admiration for anyone who chooses to serve, because I won’t, but that person is just as patriotic as I am, no more no less.

                      Oh and don’t get me started on the whole America exceptionalism thing. No we are not, and that is very plain to see with constant wars, giving to the few at the expense of the many. I saw a report this morning that says in NY state, the income difference between the haves and the have nots is like Chile and a couple other third world places, I cannot recall at this time. No we are not an exceptional place, when we have 1 in 5 kids living in poverty. We are not an exceptional country, when the unemployed are held hostage because some millionaire may not get his Hawaiian vacation this year. We are not an exceptional country, when the wealthiest few have seen their incomes rise almost double since the 70s and the lower incomes have seen theirs rise by maybe 9-10%. Sorry, we are not an exceptional country, when we have to ask other countries if they will up the limit on our credit cards to pay for what we should be paying for ourselves. We are not an exceptional country when we have more people incarcerated than any other country per capita. We are not an exceptional place when we cannot take care of the least of us properly. I could go on and on but damn this is totally depressing me, laying out just a few things off the top of my head, how we are not an exceptional country anymore.

                      Great discussion though, I just learned something about WW2 which will help me in January, when I go back into class. That’s the period we are covering, well we in me, as the teaching assistant, will be helping the real teacher, so thanks for some input I can use.

        • Krell Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 5:47 pm

          Lt. I apologize for the dentist remark as it was childish.

          The guns and truck statement was totally unrelated to your ability to judge the current direction of this country. But so was your remark about my “appreciation of my country” being judged by my lack of military service.

          I love this country but I DO NOT love the direction that it has taken. I want this place to still be around when my kids grow up so they can love it to.

          But the direction that it has taken towards it’s citizens and towards other countries, IMHO, is DESTRUCTIVE and going to take this country down at a blinding speed.

          People are at the point of taking to the streets. Middle class America has been devastated and the only thing the “leaders” think about is how to make it better for the super-rich.

          I want to do something about it so I voice my opinion as loudly and to as many people as I can. I get involved with politics on as many things as I can.

          This is a very dangerous time in this country and it doesn’t have anything to do with terrorist or somebody publishing diplomatic cables. That’s the draconian extremes that are being implemented in the name of fighting this enemy.

          If people do not stand up to it soon, it will be to the point that any organization or communication will be stomped down for any kind of disagreement.

          The war in Iraq was a preemptive strike on trump up charges and ground work that started before GWB took the oath of office. I stand by my statement that it is an illegal war.

      • A Michael J. Scott Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 4:27 pm

        Krell writes:

        “And don’t take this as an insult, but I would wager that you HAVE served in the military, that you have at least 5 guns in your household, that you drive a pickup truck, and you haven’t been to the dentist in over 12 years.”

        I’ve served in the military Krell and am damn proud of that service and proud of the friendships that sustain today as a result. I HAVE owned guns given that after being discharged from the Army I made a career out of law enforcement. I HAVE owned pickup trucks and sometimes I don’t go to the dentist as often as I should. I also have 24 years of education so I’m curious as to your point with this response to one of the brave men serving in our military forces.

        • Stimpson Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 4:39 pm

          Mike, service in the military doesn’t give anyone a free pass to insult people for “lack of depth” in research, nor should it give them license to use the inane “America, love it or leave it” rhetorical device with immunity from ridicule. I’ll leave Krell to explain what he meant, if he deems your question worthy of a response.

          • A Michael J. Scott Reply

            December 17, 2010 at 4:51 pm

            Since the question was directed at Krell and not at you that might be a good idea.

            • Stimpson Reply

              December 17, 2010 at 4:54 pm

              Gee, thanks, Mike. That’s what I figured.

        • Krell Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 5:51 pm

          Mike, my point was not to slam trucks or guns. I have a truck myself.

          My point was that it had nothing to do with his ability to make a judgment on the issues raised in my post. Just like my having no military service impairs my ability to appreciate my country.

          See my comment above for more..

          • A Michael J. Scott Reply

            December 17, 2010 at 6:10 pm

            I think I interpreted what he said differently. I won’t however, try to second guess him. Perhaps he’ll drop back by and clarify. Thanks for responding man.

    • lazersedge Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 6:31 pm

      Lt. While I do not think it is relevant as to whether Krell has served in the armed forces or not I will address that because I have. I don’t think it is relevant because you chose to do so and I applaud and appreciate your service to our country. Be that as it may, you may take me to task for my response to this posting sir. The values that I thought I was fighting for simply do not exist in real life. The so called rights are not rights if a politician or a group of politicians can take them from you at will. If the United States Constitution gives you rights then the President nor congress should not be able to take them away without cause.
      I realize that you are young and still in the positive years of your life and that is good. I am glad that the country is behind you and the others in the military despite the the war we were lied into in Iraq. Had you been around in the sixties and seventies you would have known a completely different kind of support. I you know any Vietnam vets ask them how they felt when they came home from another war that we should not have fought. Despite the names we were called and how we were treated I did and still felt that my service was an honor, not a duty. Unlike you, sir, I was an enlisted man and damned proud of it. But the Marine Corps prepared me for life and gave me the discipline to work for everything I have including my GED, BS, MS, and PhD.

      As for your standing up for America being so great, I strongly suggest that you take a few more courses in history in a real university that tells the truth. If we don’t own up to what is going wrong in this country as well as what we have done wrong in the past we will go as all self indulgent governments have gone. We will implode and those folks like myself and the vast majority of people will be at war with each other. You can only go just so long promising people a dream and giving them a nightmare before they rebel.

      Just saying young man… Stay safe

      • oso Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 9:28 pm

        You’re old school, Bill. And I can’t think of a greater compliment to someone who did what you did, and learned from it.
        Someone like you who understands the experience from all sides, and speaks his mind with understanding of the other side, but with the force and honesty of knowing what’s right.

        Of being on the side of those who most need protection.

        Much respect Bill.

      • Krell Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 10:36 pm

        Thank you for your wisdom ,Lazer. Things have changed in this country, I think everyone can sense it or has gotten an uneasy feeling that “something is going on”.

        My intention was not to get in a shouting match or insult anyone, I mean that sincerely.

        If this post has got some people just thinking about and talking about some of these things that we have given up in the name of fighting terrorism, that can be a beginning.

        Maybe that is the greatest power of blogging.

      • Anonymous Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 11:59 pm

        I am not your “young man” Lazer. I spent 10 years infantry as a jungle rat so please don’t assume that you know who I am.

        Your service is appreciated Marine.

        Semper fi….

  4. C.H. McDermott Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    “GPS tracking of a vehicles without warrants.” Actually the government has never been required to have a warrant in that situation since there is no recognized right to privacy in public spaces, ie outside the curtilage of the home, or office.

    I have it in mind to write a piece, maybe Sunday, to explain why, as a mortgage foreclosure lawyer, I think some of the attention surrounding foreclosures is a little over-blown, and some of the reporting on it has been uninformed on the part of journalists. There is definitely a little piling-on happening on the part of the press and seeing evil where there is none.

  5. Gwendolyn H. Barry Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Gee, it’s a great piece Krell! This is sharp, due-ly diligent (with links!), and while LZ tells a truth forewarned by the Pat Act… it provokes people who are lost in the disappointment of Obama and the overwhelming frustration of Congressional lack, to better clarity. And that’s what bloggers strive for, through opinion. (each on his own side…well, those who actually author posts)

    I have to ask, does pomposity provide depth? I would say to Lt., having spent some living time in a few other countries that America is not the planetary paradise… that’s very short sighted/ scratch that… it’s actually very ignorant.. if you pay attention to reality. We are heads and shoulders below many countries on several points. Health care, education, science, technology, I mean really… take a look. Go do the fundamental research?

    Some things are absolutely opinion. Other things are facts. Or is that past?

    • Krell Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 6:32 pm

      I too have been to several countries, mostly in Central America and Germany.

      But again, that really has nothing to do with my judgment and opinions on this post. Except maybe to give me more empathy to other countries feelings about US policy.

  6. Tim Waters Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    You know I thought that the patriot act might have been scaled down or at least looked into with Obama not being Bush. Seems once any President acquires more power they are very reluctant to give any back.

  7. A Michael J. Scott Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    The Patriot Act and the subsequent formation of Homeland Security are two of the best things to come out of the horror that was 9/11. Both are needed to keep us safe. This isn’t your daddy’s America.

    Obama 2012!

    • oso Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 4:32 pm

      Neither is it George W Bush’s America. The Patriot Act was a step towards a police state, and has no place in this or any other country.

    • Krell Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 5:56 pm

      I do not see how going to Iraq and killing all those people had anything in the slightest about keeping us safe. If anything, it was the best possible recruiting tool ever.

      If some country came over here for war, invading on false pretenses, I would be doing everything possible to repel that force as well.

      • A Michael J. Scott Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 6:16 pm

        I don’t see where I said going to Iraq and “killing all those people” had anything to do with keeping us safe. You do know that those poor people were shooting not only at us but also at their neighbors right? As to the false premise I don’t think the Iraqis knew anything about that.

        • Krell Reply

          December 17, 2010 at 6:26 pm

          But Mike, if it wasn’t going over there to keep us safe then why did we go over there? I don’t really get the reference to the premise and Iraqis.

          Are you implying that their shooting at us, the invading army, is a surprise in some way?

          • A Michael J. Scott Reply

            December 17, 2010 at 6:34 pm

            David we have exhausted this conversation I suspect. If you read my comments you will see that I did not support the war in Iraq. However, if you think the Iraqis were shooting at us because we invaded their country you would be mistaken. The many factions that made up Iraq, and kept under control by Hussein, were unleashed by our presence. As a result they started killing everyone who didn’t believe in what they believed. It had nothing to do with the rather romantic notion of them repelling the evil invaders. That, in reality, is more in keeping with al Qaeda’s philosophy.

    • lazersedge Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 6:39 pm

      Mike you sound like some of your South Georgia neighbors with Patriot Act stuff. That is the most dangerous piece of legislation ever passed where individual rights are concerned. Of course, you really don’t care much for the Bill of Rights either do you?

      • A Michael J. Scott Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 7:00 pm

        I am shocked by your comments my old friend. You know me much better than that.

        • lazersedge Reply

          December 18, 2010 at 3:07 pm

          You shouldn’t be Mike. I know it is our inside joke but how many times have we discussed(?) confessions, search and seizure, etc. 🙂

          • A Michael J. Scott Reply

            December 18, 2010 at 5:28 pm

            True. I had forgotten your Neo-Liberal tendencies Bill 🙂 🙂 🙂

  8. A Michael J. Scott Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    O-Man for some reason there was no reply to your reply which was replying to my reply and etc. so I will reply here:

    Hitler always considered Austria part of the Reich, as did the Austrians. They just walked in and everyone was happy.

    Czechoslovakia was invaded with guns and troops and shit. Not a pretty scene.

    You make an interesting point with that idiot Rumsfeld. The guy didn’t have the sense to pour piss out of a boot much less wage a blitzkrieg war 🙂 🙂

    • oso Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 6:01 pm

      Right. If memory serves, the Czechs could have put up quite a fight but I think the allies recommended against it, for their own reasons which I think were that Churchill/UK weren’t ready to fight.

      Yeah I’d read a book by Gabriel Kolko that really went into the war on the cheap thing. A well equipped vanguard, but once you got past the top of the line blitzkrieg much of their equippage was outmoded.

      You know they kept women out of the munitions plants and continued to spend on infrastructure and civic building plans right up thru 1943, wanted to keep the home folks happy as possible.Didn’t go to total war till 1944. Can you imagine if they’d gone all out from the start, of course it’s good they didn’t.

      • A Michael J. Scott Reply

        December 17, 2010 at 6:14 pm

        I hadn’t read anything about the Czechs not putting up quite a fight based on anyone’s recommendation but they had a very small army who found themselves overwhelmed by a massive and determined force.

        I had also not read anything about outmoded equipment but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. The fact is, had the Germans a little more time it could have been disastrous for the world.

        Great discussion my friend. I could talk all day about WWII.

        • JMyste Reply

          December 20, 2010 at 1:09 pm

          The largest opposition they had was the flakes, which are especially tasty.

          Always glad to contribute something useful,
          John Myste

  9. Holte Ender Reply

    December 17, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Too many alpha males in the room for me, shouting insults and ready to fight at the drop of a hat. Dentists, trucks, shot in the mouth, horse shit. It has been said that posts and discussions like this keep people coming back, it don’t keep me coming back.

    • Gwendolyn H. Barry Reply

      December 17, 2010 at 10:59 pm

      Ya think? Good night and good luck! 🙂

      • A Michael J. Scott Reply

        December 18, 2010 at 10:45 am

        Edward R. Murrow?

        • Gwendolyn H. Barry Reply

          December 18, 2010 at 10:53 am

          I thought it summed and served… 🙂

          Making stuff for our DOI Yule party tonight…festive me! Sending festive Yuletide wishes to you! and
          Holte!
          and
          your commentarian! (one of my made up words for all them who comment at the ezines / blogs.)

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