Do We Need Written Rules For What Constitutes Sexual Harassment?
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by Bill Formby
Listening to the outpouring of sexual harassment complaints, I’m getting to point that I’m afraid to leave my house much less speak to a female in public. No one need worry about me running for any public office because I’ve a past that will likely come rolling forward like a freight train.
No, I have never tried or ever wanted to date or molest underaged females. I don’t ever remember touching a female anywhere without prior consent, or at least implied consent. But, I am sure there were times when I stared longer than appropriate, and I probably commented on a lady’s looks without being asked to first. I know that I have, at times, told off color jokes in the presence of members of the fairer sex. I have also been known to drink too much at my favorite bar back in the day.
In my defense, on some of these occasions, I was teaching classes at a university or two in the South. Coeds have a tendency to come to class during the warmer months with precious little cloth cover their bodies; like short shorts and a halter top or a Tee shirt two sizes too small usually without the benefit of a bra. I do get it that that apparel was not intended for my benefit but more likely the young men in the classes who were usually dressed like bums. Ragged shorts and Tee shirts that had long since seen their better days.
The universities where I taught had strict sexual harassment policies and I did my best to stay within them, but those were different times. I try to remain professional while teaching even when I teach online. I haven’t been in a classroom for a couple of years now but I must have been doing something right, because in 42 years of teaching I have only been propositioned for grade increases twice. Both times I declined as politely as possible and suggested that they may want to just study a little more.
My point, however, is the things coming out now labeled as sexual harassment I probably did a time or two. On the news, one young woman said that she went into her boss’s office to discuss her pay. When she came in she said that he smiled at her and commented on how pretty she looked. She said it made her feel uncomfortable but after their conversation she got a raise in pay. She said it really made her feel dirty because she felt like she got the raise because he thought “she looked good.”
I don’t mean to make light of this situation. No one should ever do something that makes someone else feel uncomfortable or “dirty”. No one should ever put their hands on another person when it is not wanted. It is simply wrong. But, it is difficult to know what is in the mind of another person. Now, when someone is overtly doing something like our president said he did, it is damned clear, it is wrong.
When someone does what Roy Moore is accused of doing, it is wrong. Using profanity in the presence of others where one does not know their tolerance for such language, or telling off color jokes, is wrong. Staring at someone to the point that it makes them uncomfortable is also not something that should be tolerated. But, I think that the person being made uncomfortable should let it be known that they are being made to feel that way.
I’ve worked around females most of my life, and, because of how I was brought up, always tried to act appropriately. I ran a restaurant for a little over two years and most of my employees were women, and I made sure that I was always appropriate around them. There was a saying in the restaurant business that alluded to dealing with females in the workplace. “Never get your meat where you get your bread.” A little crude but it got the point across. I just think there needs to be more notice about what’s acceptable and what isn’t, as opposed to questionable behavior that only becomes questionable decades later.
Again, this doesn’t pertain to the obvious behaviors of the current president, Roy Moore, Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K, etc. Such activity was clearly out of bounds. I think that Al Franken’s “joke” was simply a bridge too far. But, there are things that may have occurred in the past that were deemed acceptable then that are, in the new light of the 21st century, now considered harassment. I think we just need a clearer understanding of the rules.
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This was in the paper today:
“Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum, former Miami Beach Mayor Philip Levine, former U.S. Rep. Gwen Graham and businessman Chris King quickly called on Bittel to resign in response to a Politico report quoting women it did not identify saying Bittel would leer at them, make comments about their appearances or breasts, and exhibit other behavior that made them uncomfortable. He also had a breast-shaped stress ball in his office.”
Why, I wonder did no one step forward and say something to this person? Answer: Because of the power differential most likely. Right now it is some what like a school of fish in the sense that there is some degree of protection in numbers. While everyone is ranting about the violators no one would dare retaliate against them. But somehow we do need to allow any person who is made to feel uncomfortable to feel safe enough to talk to someone about the situation. In many cases people can’t fix a problem they don’t know they have.
If you look at some of the people coming forward Bill, both men and women, they will say things like, they were ashamed to say anything, they thought someone else would say something, the person had power over them to make them lose jobs or a position they were looking to get, they were worried it would not be believed and so on and so on. Once one person has the courage to come forward to say something others will follow suit.
You were in law enforcement and you likely have seen this one up close and personal, maybe Mike has too. Someone is assaulted sexually and it is hardly ever reported on, or if it does get reported and goes to court, the victims of these things are just assaulted a second time, why were they wherever they were, did they go with the person initially and have second thoughts, why did they not fight, what were they wearing, had they had anything to drink and if so was it maybe too much to drink and on and on ad nauseum.
I’ve investigated all sorts of sexual allegations. In many case prosecutors or police ask the victims to take polygraph exams, and, in many of those cases I was the examiner, having obtained my certification in 1977. As I look back on it, I see it as being victimized twice. In all but a few, very few cases, the victim was telling the truth.
You know Mike, it is odd in a way, that you get a call to a place about a robbery and it is just assumed that it happened. No one usually asks the victim if they resisted the robber enough. “The guy had a gun and said he wanted my money, so I gave him my money”.
I know exactly what you saying Jess, I guess I am just frustrated that I, nor anyone else I guess, seems to be able to correct this. It was the same kind of problem that happens in acquaintance rape situations. It seems that Huxley’s Brave New World of essentially having a sexless society may eventually be the only way to deal with this problem.
Bill, I have a girlfriend that went through a horrible date rape when we were in college together. As you probably know, Stanford and many colleges are not as good as they should be with campus rape, see Stanford rapist as one example. Her rapist did get 2 years behind bars and had to register as a sex offender so there is that. She reported it because like she said, “if I don’t the next person he rapes will weigh heavily on me”. I still don’t get the short sentences for such awful crimes because the victims of these attacks have to live with that the rest of their lives and many of them suffer from stress disorders because of it.
We wouldn’t follow any rules. We’d just carry on being us. If we get it wrong we do and the consequences will follow.
I agree with Jess with a ‘but’.
What about the innocent publically accused? The names of the accused must be legally protected until sufficient evidence is produced.
Otherwise it’s witch hunt time.
Neil, it is a catch 22. Many of these things happen in a way that is hard to prove and it becomes a he said, she said situation. But I do agree that some degree of safe guards need to be in place.
This is out of control and the Franken accusations just put it over the top for me. His accuser was part of a comedy team. They’re crazy anyway and yet 11 years later, following Roy Moore et al, she decides to go public while Roger Stone knew it before it happened. The picture? She’s wearing Kevlar and is part of a “wild and crazy” comedy troupe. I call bullshit on this one. Yes
I don’t know what type of rules would be used because there are literally hundreds of thousands of ways this shit takes place. It’s one of those things, when you are a woman, you are watching out for every moment of every day and frankly it is exhausting. I would say just be a good person and do not do anything you don’t want done to you and it will all work out in the end,
It’s why I am very happy there is a new man in my life right now. I met him a couple of months ago and he’s lovely. Jonathon Walker Blue is his name and he treats me very well when I need him and when I don’t, I can be away from him and he does not give me grief or get jealous and he most definitely is not trying to get in my panties every second I am with him.
First, let me say that I am really happy for you Jess. I wrote this as a point if discussion because I think it is like other problems we have in this country that people don’t want to talk about.
You know Johnny Walker too, he’s lovely. Right now it’s ripe for discussion with all of it coming into the public sphere.
I believe the only reason those behaviors were tolerated many years ago is because women or others being made to feel uncomfortable, had no support to speak up. The culture didn’t allow those bullied to speak up, in other words. There is a movement for transparency of all types, and this is just one example of “keep no secrets”. Professor, I don’t think the rules have changed, but the world of speaking up, fairness, equality and much more has changed around the behaviors. No need to ask for clarity on the rules if we just remember our core values of reverence, dignity for every human being, and respect for those different than we are (sex, race, etc.).
Very well said Carol. As I said I always tried to act appropriately but I am sure there times, especially in my younger years, that I probably crossed the line. I think that the culture overall has changed a lot for the better in the sense that people feel freer to speak up about things that make them uncomfortable. There are still a lot of males who are still behaving like throwbacks to the days of cavemen except they use positions of power instead of clubs to get their way.
I’m not sure these rules can be codified beyond what you’ve said. We’re still in the hysterical phase with millions of angry females trying to make their grievances seem universal. Read one on Facebook yesterday where some woman insisted something be done “about men” because she “had an agreement for vaginal sex” but her new boyfriend wanted anal. I’m now smart enough not to suggest that getting a new boyfriend might be better than to march in the street and demand an act of congress. There’s no way to win these things.
But it’s nice to be old and well married because I would not get along in this crazy world. It’s not enough to be a gentleman at all and I’m damned if I’m going to sign a “vaginal sex agreement”