An Englishman Waffles On About Brexit, But Does He Have A Point?
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Well, we are finally approaching the time when I will stop waffling on about Brexit—Hooray is the cry from everybody. On the other hand, we MIGHT be finally approaching the time when I will stop waffling on about Brexit. It depends—Oh no! is the cry from everybody. You see, Brexit is clearly not a done deal, as the saying goes.
A full 52% of the people who voted in the referendum voted to leave. About 48% (including me) voted to remain. Now even my faulty mathematics can fathom out which side won and yet, they haven’t won. Well, not yet anyway.
Oh well, that’s democracy for you. You can’t have the majority view prevailing if too many of those ‘in power’ don’t like it.
Prime Minister Theresa May has a deal she wants Parliament to pass through. If they do then we will leave on the terms of her deal with the EU.
It is looking very likely that Parliament won’t vote for her deal and, in fairness, it isn’t a very good deal. The legal ‘default’ position to that is that we still leave on March 29th, but without a deal.
Seemingly the majority in Parliament don’t like that prospect either so, their plan seems to be to ignore the legal default position and push for another referendum, to see if the British people can be nice to them this time and vote the other way.
It’s such fun this democracy thing isn’t it?
Quite how Parliament would justify ignoring the legal default position is a mystery to me. Perhaps they will say “We don’t like it”, although that could set a dangerous precedent as I might decide to ‘not like’ any number of laws and start hitting people I don’t like over the head with a baseball bat, which is, not surprisingly, illegal.
“But officer! Parliament ignored a law they didn’t like so surely, in a democracy, so can I”
All right. I know. Daft analogy. Besides, I haven’t got a baseball bat. But, you get my drift? Parliament makes our laws – well, those the EU haven’t made anyway – so having made them, they can hardly just ignore one because it’s a teeny weeny bit inconvenient can they? Can they?
There seems to be an increasing clamor from some quarters for a second referendum. As the very idea would possibly drive many people into an asylum, those clamoring have decided to call it ‘a peoples vote’ in the vague hope nobody will notice it is actually a second referendum.
This ‘peoples vote’ would, those in favor of it hope, ask the following –
1) Leave with the Prime Ministers deal.
2) Leave with no deal.
3) Remain in the European Union.
Doh! Really? Really? They really think that nobody will notice the blatant ‘stitch up’ to split the ‘leave’ vote?
Look. I voted ‘remain’. Yes, I know, I am no fan of the EU. I am alarmed by its direction of travel. It’s desire for a fully united Europe both politically and monetarily. A centralized EU government. The loss of sovereignty that would naturally have to occur in all member countries for that to happen. The clear corruption and waste of money regularly occurring.
Never the less, I voted ‘remain’ for the majority of ‘young people’ who, I believed, wanted to remain. I decided, reluctantly, that it is their future not mine, so there you go.
I lost. We, the ‘remainers’ lost. We really need to get over it and realize that, for better or worse, we have to leave.
“Oh but people didn’t know all the facts!” say remainers.
Neither did we remainers actually. We voted to remain members of the EU. That’s it. We didn’t vote about anything else, just to remain. The leavers voted to leave and that’s it. They didn’t care about customs unions or single markets they just wanted out.
They won, we lost. This is a democracy.
“Ah! But referendums are not legally binding!”
Prime Minister of the day, David Cameron, stated the result would be binding. He probably wishes he hadn’t but he did. Therefore it is. This is a democracy.
On March 29th, 2019, the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union, deal or no deal.
If it doesn’t happen I strongly suspect there will be civil unrest and, almost certainly, violence on our streets.
I, personally, will never condone violence—I’ve a strong aversion for getting hurt for starters — but, if it happens it will not be those perpetrating such acts who are entirely to blame, it will also be those who prevented democracy from functioning as it should and, indeed, must, for it to be a democracy.
If we don’t leave, deal or not, on March 29th, British democracy will be in its death throes.
In Case You Missed It: The Englishman Who Is Addicted to Brexit
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The EU’s ultimate goal is no conspiracy theory. A number of senior bods – Merkel, Junker and so forth – happily acknowledge it.
Indeed, many pro EU people would welcome it. Fair enough. Not a lover of the idea myself.
Having said that, I would back pretty much anything that helped the weakest and most vulnerable. Quite how there can be so many of them in such a wealthy world beggars belief.
I might be mouthy self opinionated Northern git, but even my moral compass is kicking in when you see the mega wealthy partying as kids die.
Much longer seeing this sort of thing and I’ll become a bloody liberal 😜
Never thought I’d hate the Torys quite as much as I do either…
Well said old bean.
People all over the democratic world believe in one conspiracy theory or another.
Trump was a vocal supporter of “Obama is a secret Muslim”.
The Holocaust never happened. Mainly because Jews secretly control the world.
The moon landing never took place, a Hollywood stunt to show the Soviets the power of our technology.
The Mob, or the CIA killed President Kennedy.
The 9/11 attacks were an inside job to justify going to war with the Muslim world. Bush/Cheney didn’t an excuse so complicated.
The Earth is Flat. The Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe it what they proudly say.
Russia colluded with Trumps people to help decide the result of the 2016 election. They also influenced the Brexit vote, and elections in several other Europeans countries. Soviet style destabilization. This one conspiracy theory I can live with.
Not matter what any unelected Commissioners say the EU will not become a Super State to match the USSR. Putin’s Russia is fearful of a united Europe. He is loving Brexit and other turmoil within member countries. Watch out Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
Brexit voters and Trump voters have a lot in common, both groups want their country back. The dark and the brown people are taking it away and it’s the liberals of world who are at fault.
Hateful division exists in the US and the UK right now and given the intensity of of the issues, civil unrest beckons and the weakest members of society will get hammered. It’s usually the way.
So you are against Johnny Foreigner fishing and against him setting foot on British soil. Also against the EU becoming a political juggernaut. It’s already a trading juggernaut, the biggest in the world, with 17% of all world imports and exports performed by member countries. It’s the biggest trading partner to over 80 countries. So let’s drop out of this massive trading bloc and find other partners. The US, China and the Pacific Rim will sell to Britain, doubt if they would want to buy much, unless it’s cheap oil and gas. Britain could not be successful like Norway or Switzerland because they are social democracies and not run by Tory bandits. Plus they have a well educated workforce due to free higher education and much better run healthcare system. All the things that Tory Britain does not project. The social democracies are happier, whether in EU or not. Britain not happy place right now.
Not at all. I have no problem with ‘Johnny Foreigner’ doing anything provided it doesn’t harm the UK.
I know little to nothing about our fishing industry so can only go on what much of the industry has been saying, which is that EU regulations on fishing in British waters is adversely effecting them. I’m presuming they know what they are talking about?
As to setting foot here. Again fine, providing it doesn’t adversely effect British citizens – including those who came here over time and took out citizenship.
If a family of immigrants arrives, sometimes their circumstances may well mean they become entitled to various benefits. I have no issue with that providing we can actually afford it. When elderly British citizens are being inadequately cared for so often for example, or when ex-service personnel are living rough with PTSD and there is insufficient funds to help them then I have an issue.
I firmly believe that ‘charity begins at home’ and British citizens, regardless of their origins or antecedents, should always be prioritized over others.
There are always exceptions of course. The Ghurka’s were shamefully treated, for example, after faithfully serving Britain. That was rightly prioritized as an unacceptable situation.
The EU? Yes, at the moment and, for the foreseeable future, it is indeed a political juggernaut and also a huge trading bloc.
My concerns are it’s ‘direction of travel’. I want to vote the Tory’s out and then, when I’ve had enough of them, vote Labour out. (I suppose we’re more a ‘two party state than anything).
What I am alarmed about is the EU’s ultimate goal of a fully united Europe both politically and monetarily. The only way they could achieve this would be for member countries (I always say ‘countries’ rather than ‘states’) to allow their sovereignty to be abandoned for a central European government to govern.
Of course, as a member country, we can veto such shenanigins, but if we ever had a government in favour of such a thing, we could no longer govern ourselves independently of the EU.
The bigger the government the less say ‘the people’ will have.
We would, obviously, still elect the British representatives in such a government but, as only one contingent out of twenty seven, they wouldn’t be able to prevent the central EU government passing laws etc that were not particularly beneficial to the UK.
You are quite right. Britain is not a happy place at the moment and the Torys are certainly responsible for a great deal of the unfairness and unhappiness around at the moment.
Even more alarming to me is the polarization. As a ‘reluctant’ remainer I listen respectfully to ‘remainers’ and Brexiteers. Most of them on both sides though, seem so full of anger and, sometimes, almost hatred.
You can tell how bad it is when even I sound moderate in comparison to so many! 😉
I certainly wouldn’t vote Tory if there was an election but, neither would I vote Labour as they are at present. The Liberal Democrats are probably a wasted vote although, despite their almost rabid pro Europe stance at least they behave with respect, which is something.
Anyone else? UKIP are becoming another BNP – they’ve actually employed that Tommy Robinson creature!
The Greens? I’m a huge supporter of environmental issues so, perhaps? Bit of a fringe party though.
Yes Holte, Britain is a very divided nation. Who knows what will happen next?
I will drink beer and keep my fingers crossed that, what ever the future, at least some of the outright hatred can be diluted.
Oh eck…I’m turning into Victor Meldrew 😂😂😂
(See TV’s ‘One Foot In The Grave)
Given the points I have put forth, I’m surprised nobody seems to have the gumption to debate them!
Clearly I am correct?
Gumption? Don’t think that’s it there friend Neil, but I enjoyed the article anyway. Methinks someone is in a grumpy mood.
Incidentally. What are the views regarding the fact that, for better or worse, the leave side won.
Is it right they are denied what they voted for? If so, how can it be justified? (Apart from saying ‘they’re wrong’ which actually requires an accurate crystal ball anyway)
As the football chants whose team have just scored tend to chant : “It’s all gone quiet over there!!” 🙂
Is it right that America got the worst fucking president it’s ever had? No. But that’s the system, and using the same system, Americans are going to do something about it, like kick the fucker out. It was a mistake. Rather like Brexit I expect old bean. Might not get it done but the people can try 🙂 I do think you’re grumpy tonight as Ron said.
Of course electing Trump was a mistake. He is, however, your President. That’s how it works. You can vote him out next time. Same with Brexit. The vote was leave so we have to leave. The next time – whenever that is – there can be another referendum if there is sufficient demand and we can go again and see whether we stay out or rejoin.
What is wrong is the possibility that we don’t leave after a democratic vote to do so.
It’s like Trump getting elected and not being allowed to be President. As good as that might have seemed it would have been against America’s constitution.
We can’t have our democracies running to suit some people when they don’t like it – or it isn’t actually democracy.
No, old bean, we don’t have to wait for the next election to kick him out. There are several ways, all constitutional, to kick him out.
Perhaps so, but he was elected and is the President. That could change and he may be gone prior to another election.
Never the less, he did become President (sadly).
In the same way, Britain has to leave the EU. Perhaps, at some point, we will rejoin, perhaps not.
Regardless of views pro or anti EU, we have to leave. Like Trump it may be a mistake but, like Trump, if we are a democracy then we have to follow the democratic process that we have.
As Cameron negated the ‘referendums are not legally binding’ argument by stating it would be, then it has to be.
You can’t run a democracy by saying “Oops” and ignoring the bits that you believe are a mistake. Besides, 52% of the people who voted at the time, didn’t believe it was a mistake.
If time proves them wrong then, I suppose, they will change their minds and vote to rejoin should the opportunity arise. If time proves them right then great.
What EU laws offend you?
Actually I’ve the same question old bean 🙂
All of them Katie, all of them that are put in front of him 🙂 I don’t think he even knows he just makes it up.
Ha! Ha! Ha!!! You got it Jess!!
Oh grow up woman
Just answered to clarify Jess.
Personally? None really…well, if there are any that would I’m not aware of them. It’s more the principal of a government outside of the UK making them that irritates me a bit.
Is the right to fish in British waters at the expense of the British fishing industry an EU law? If it is then that’s wrong.
The right to free movement is also wrong. It allows undesirables the same rights as normal people to move freely around Europe.
Besides, my concerns regarding the EU are primarily its clear direction of travel and it’s ultimate ambition to govern a ‘United States of Europe’.
Also, albeit reluctantly, I did vote ‘remain’ you know. Not for me, clearly, but if young people wanted it then it’s their future. Never the less, we lost.